New find for radius arm ram trucks

Ravenmad

Observer
I wish they made some type of "articulink" for the ram 2500 like they make for the power wagon. Cooper at Diesel Power Products has broke the front housing in Howitzer twice now. I can only assume its from the twisting load put on the housing when you articulate the suspension beyond the max deflection point in the radius arm / axle housing mount bushings. I have actually seen this before in the early FORD radius arm design.
 

Ravenmad

Observer
I just had a great conversation with Cooper from DPP ( we have a mutual friend ). Anyways, so we were talking about the radius arm design on the new RAMs. He said to his knowledge no one has a set of radius arms that will allow for more axle articulation. Interesting, He recommended a Carli axle truss to help strengthen the axle housing and He said He removed the front sway bar all together. He said the front suspension is in an almost constant state of bind because of the radius arm design. Anyways, I thought I would share that info. I wonder if these fabricated radius arms could be build to incorporate a polly / or levite pressed bushing on the driver side to mimic the power wagon Articulink Radius arm on the drivers side of power wagons?
 

Explorerinil

Observer
The Carli radius arms allow for a tad bit more flex but not what your after. These Lewis arms are about the best out there I have seen, gives you lots of adjustments and no need for drop brackets.
 

Ravenmad

Observer
I agree. I just called and spoke to a guy at Lewis built, amazing that they are open on a Sat. or at least answered the phone on a Sat. Customer Service, imagine that. Anyways, I spoke to him about using a large adjustable pressed joint on the upper link arm were it meets the main radius arm. The large heavy rubber joints used on a few aftermarket jeep suspensions would allow for an additional 1/2 - 3/4 inch of defection. When the suspension articulates the axle housing actually wants to twist as one side gets longer and the other side gets shorter in relation to it neutral starting point. No question, having a separate upper link is good, but if they could put a heavy rubber bushing at the adjustment end that would dramatically reduce a large amount of deflection / twisting load on the axle housing by forcing the bushing to deflect instead. I think it would probably only need to be changed on the drivers side upper (same as the power wagon radius arm) in order to allow for the deflection.

This might be just a mute point as most of us (me included) will not be running more than 10-12 inches of wheel travel in the front of our RAM trucks and I won't be rock crawling my full size. However, its just less chance of damage to a hard to fix part in a remote place. Im going to order a set of radius arms to use in conjunction with the AEV suspension, can't hurt and we will make the modification to the drivers side upper... Gonna be GREAT
 

Explorerinil

Observer
I agree. I just called and spoke to a guy at Lewis built, amazing that they are open on a Sat. or at least answered the phone on a Sat. Customer Service, imagine that. Anyways, I spoke to him about using a large adjustable pressed joint on the upper link arm were it meets the main radius arm. The large heavy rubber joints used on a few aftermarket jeep suspensions would allow for an additional 1/2 - 3/4 inch of defection. When the suspension articulates the axle housing actually wants to twist as one side gets longer and the other side gets shorter in relation to it neutral starting point. No question, having a separate upper link is good, but if they could put a heavy rubber bushing at the adjustment end that would dramatically reduce a large amount of deflection / twisting load on the axle housing by forcing the bushing to deflect instead. I think it would probably only need to be changed on the drivers side upper (same as the power wagon radius arm) in order to allow for the deflection.

This might be just a mute point as most of us (me included) will not be running more than 10-12 inches of wheel travel in the front of our RAM trucks and I won't be rock crawling my full size. However, its just less chance of damage to a hard to fix part in a remote place. Im going to order a set of radius arms to use in conjunction with the AEV suspension, can't hurt and we will make the modification to the drivers side upper... Gonna be GREAT
Awesome. Just remember with the AEV kit and the Lewis arms you won’t run the AEV radius arm drop brackets... I think you’ll have a great set up. I would ditch the crappy bilstein shocks that come with the AEV kit for some custom tuned kings.
 

Ravenmad

Observer
Awesome. Just remember with the AEV kit and the Lewis arms you won’t run the AEV radius arm drop brackets... I think you’ll have a great set up. I would ditch the crappy bilstein shocks that come with the AEV kit for some custom tuned kings.

Yup, Im just going to run the Bilstein's for set up and get the truck rolling. I already have King Air bumps in the box on the shelf as well. The truck won't be built for blasting across the dunes, but I absolutely want to make sure it is built very well for overloading and back country trips. I really never liked the drop brackets anyways, seems like you are just giving up a bunch of ground clearance and unnecessarily hanging the radius arms down to drag over stuff. The lewis arms will be nice...
 

Dalko43

Explorer
So I'm not sure I understand what the issue is with the stock radius arms on the Ram. Will they break if front suspension articulates too much?
 

Ravenmad

Observer
The issue is, on a standard radius arm design you have a single frame mounting point for each arm and on the axle housing you typically have two mounting points (the two mounting points on the housing control the axle housing and ensure it sits in a proper orientation to maintain caster and proper geometry). A radius arm suspension is typically very stable and very strong, both good reasons for the factory to use the design.

As the truck sits on level / flat ground and under a equal load (right and left side) both radius arms will basically sit parallel to each other and at the same degree of angle as they connect the axle housing to the trucks frame. If you were to place the truck on a lift and attempt to cycle the suspension (with the sway bar disconnected) on say the passengers side or drivers side you would see that as the suspension compresses on the one side it will begin to lift the opposite side well. This is because the suspension is binding. a properly engineered 4 link allows the suspension to articulate without binding and then stability is controlled by shock valving, spring rates and a sway bar/ani roll bar.

Back to the radius arm though, when you look at the radius arms they move on an arc, the flatter the angle of the radius arms at a static load the better a truck will drive because in effect the axle moves straight up when you hit a bump. Actually, if the radius arms sit perfectly flat at ride height the axle moves back as it compresses (albeit a very minute amount), it does this because the arm travels on an arc. Think of it like this. draw two vertical lines 12 inches apart. then take a 12 inch ruler, fix it to a stationary point on one line and then move the ruler up and down. A gap will appear between the end of the ruler and the second vertical line.

Now, imagine that you have two rulers fixed to the same point, side by side (this reperesent's our radius arms), move one ruler up and the other one down. Now, look at the ends of the rulers and see how each end is at a different angle. The Axle housing on a RAM has solid mounting points with heavy rubber bushings that allow for a limited amount of distortion. If you apply to much force to these mounting points on each end of the axle housing something will eventually give way. That something is typically the welds that hold the axle tubes into the center cast pumpkin. A 4 link does not bind as much because it has 4 individual control arms and as the axle articulates the arms can move independently of each other compensating for change in length as it applies to the arc of movement.

The Lewis built radius arms are nice because they allow for more deflection (provided you use a heavy rubber bushing at the radius arm end of the upper link). It in effect acts like a type of 4 link with the durability of a radius arm... Years ago guys who built radius arm suspensions on rock crawlers used a missing link. The passengers side radius arm would have the traditional 2 mounting points on the axle housing, but the drivers side would only have the lower mounting point on the axle housing, this allowed the axle to remain stabilized-ish by the passenger side mount and because there was only one mounting point on the drivers side of the axle housing the suspension would not bind as easily when it articulated.

The power wagon uses what they call an Articulink on the drivers side radius arm, it provides a link from the radius arm through a heavy rubber bushing to the upper axle mount on the axle housing. this in effect allows for some reduction in suspension binding as the axle moves during articulation... Certainly, FCA understood this and it is for sure why they limit the amount of axle articulation with a relatively short amount of suspension travel in the front of the ram trucks. Im sure there is some calculation concerning bushing deflection and axle articulation (look at the bushings on the axle housing, they are huge and allow a good amount of deflection)....

Anyways.... I hope this made sense...
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Informative post!

So at what point does the OEM radius arm setup become a liability for an offroad-oriented Ram? I'd imagine that driving over rough, even unimproved and rutted roads and tracks should be fine...plenty of people drive their Ram's on bad surfaces and I don't hear about axle bind being a common issue.

You mentioned something about Cooper from Diesel Power Products encountering issues. Was that on a technical rock crawl?

Is this Lewis Radius arm the only setup that addresses the issue? I believe Carli offers aftermarket radius arms too, no?
 

Ravenmad

Observer
You are absolutely correct, normal use and even mild offload use should be fine. The problems begin to display themselves when you push the trucks suspension articulation wise. Cooper has something like 13 inch throw shocks on the front of Howitzer and is rock crawling it. He broke it on day 4 of Ultimate adventure last year if I remember correctly and then again in Moab for EJS. The lewis arms are a good start, but they were originally built for go fast dirt trucks. They will need the upper link ends to be replaced with a rubber end similar to the new terflex alpine joints in order to facilitate articulation, but even then they will have their limitations.

Carli does make a radius arm, but its intended to strengthen the link between the axle and frame as go fast trucks produce a lot of impact load on the radius arms as they hit large variations in terrain surface (bumps and jumps).

Honestly, I have a tendency to overbuild and then dial back my use by 10-15% and call it good. I don't intend to rock crawl my CCSB RAM 2500, but if I ever needed to it will be ready.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,840
Messages
2,878,754
Members
225,393
Latest member
jgrillz94
Top