Jwestpro
Explorer
thx for the clarification. I may try them again but with the rods and also adding 51mm to the base setting. I'm also going to do some searching for new air line in bulk.
New product from Proud Rhino! The SYA Off Road Extension Kit
- Thread starter Fivespddisco
- Start date
thx for the clarification. I may try them again but with the rods and also adding 51mm to the base setting. I'm also going to do some searching for new air line in bulk.
I haven't been on this forum in a while but you're going to need more than just a lift (via whatever source you choose) to run 275/70-18s. I won't get into the mods needed for big tires as it's been covered many times here and no need to muddy this thread.
My real question is why are you going to a tire that size to drive in the city and highway? Is just for the aesthetic? Because you'll definitely have worse handling, worse mileage, more noise, etc running mud tires. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're really using the truck hard off-road.
Jwestpro
Explorer
AMEN bro!
Hey, here's an idea for this thread, I wonder how the strut spacers would affect a steel spring converted LR3/4. The springs set static height about 2" higher which is what the rods usually do as well as my standard go-to +50mm on the LLAms dial. Adding the strut spacer would obviously double that with primary issues I see being more down angle on half shafts and also probably setting up an odd geometry on the control arms. Basically the arms would have less range of downward travel even though the spring and dampers could extend. I'm already thinking though this now .... the ball joints would probably not be happy at that angle full time either.Will Lucky8 please put together a 4" body lift kit ????
For lr3 high pressure airline I use falconworks - they also have the right high pressure couplers as well. And the brass bleeder valve
http://www.jewellamberoil.com/sales/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=242
http://www.jewellamberoil.com/sales/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=242
AMEN bro!
Will Lucky8 please put together a 4" body lift kit ????
Funny you should mention that...
I recently broke ANOTHER front strut - this one hyper-extended internally and let go. The problem here I fear is it's an Arrnot instead of OEM. On the plus side they have a lifetime warranty and I'm currently (still...2 weeks on) waiting for them to send the replacement. The bad is I was hopping for a refund instead of replacement so I could justify just swapping back to OEM even at a higher price.
But it got me thinking ... I've long been against coils for the simple reason that you can't get any lift in a heavy mod'ed truck with the current coil set-ups. Out of frustration, I called Lucky8 just to see if my logic was correct and yes, they confirmed they don't have lift coils available. However...they did say to stay tuned for future developments so maybe one day I will go coils though I doubt it highly.
And you are correct that running their bumpstop spacers on top of coils would be about a 2" lift. I considered doing this (I already have the spacers but don't run them) but didn't like the idea of bodging it together and the corresponding worries about CV angles, down travel, etc.
On the other hand, this got me thinking about those spacers. I think I'm going to try some surgery on them and cut them down to half their size and try them out again. As it is I can still roll on my 275/70-18s on the bump stops but with occasional rubbing. I think a 1" spacers as oppose to the 2" they are currently might be worth a try and hey, I've got the parts laying there, just have to cut and re-weld them. This should also result in a slight reduction in bag pressure to obtain the same amount of lift since the strut will be riding 1" lower in it's stroke. Since I'll be changing out one strut anyway might as well pull the others at the same time and experiment a bit.
Ray_G
Explorer
'Can't get any lift on coils?'
With the HD coils you would really be putting a **** load of weight on a truck to not get most of the 50mm lift out of it (i.e. 2", not counting ability to put a spacer inside the coilover).
Putting a SYA 2" spacer on top and running regular coils would make it ride horrendously if it weighs that much...as food for thought.
All this speaks to the limitations of the platform; it is already heavy out of the box. Putting a lot of weight on it and then wheeling it will break components-either EAS or coil. Weight really is an enemy here, and suspension setups are only going to get one so far.
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With the HD coils you would really be putting a **** load of weight on a truck to not get most of the 50mm lift out of it (i.e. 2", not counting ability to put a spacer inside the coilover).
Putting a SYA 2" spacer on top and running regular coils would make it ride horrendously if it weighs that much...as food for thought.
All this speaks to the limitations of the platform; it is already heavy out of the box. Putting a lot of weight on it and then wheeling it will break components-either EAS or coil. Weight really is an enemy here, and suspension setups are only going to get one so far.
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First, I wasn't suggesting putting the spacer kit above the coils. I actually have a friend who did his own ghetto-fab spacers above a coil install and did get a lot of lift, but it was ... let's just call it 'questionable'.
Regarding the 'no lift' with coils, I've covered this repeatedly but I'll do it again.
The standard coil kit is intended to give stock ride height with a stock truck. The 'HD' kit is supposed to get a stock truck up to the equivalent of off road height.
Given my truck is far heavier than stock, even with the 'HD' kit I'd loose a lot of that height. Maybe not a full 2" of sag, but certainly a lot of it. So maybe I'd get a little bit of lift over stock road height with the HD coil kit, but not very much at all. When speaking with L8 they confirmed this is the case and suggested they were working on something to address the issue but it wasn't ready for release.
Now consider that I run rods (or you could be using a GAP or LLAMS lift), so my default road height is the full 'off road' height. Therefore right off the bat even with the 'HD' coils I'd be loosing height. Of course I have the option to go up to my rod-assisted off road height as well should I need, so that's an over-all loss of 2-4" even with the HD coils. No Bueno.
All of this explains why I now wheel a D1...
The LR3 no longer has to handle the hard stuff and can stick to the moderate trails. Heck, I may even change it for an LR4 at some point in if I start towing the D1. Certainly more comfy than the D1 w/o roof (!)
Ray_G
Explorer
So I'm well aware of the permutations of what coil springs do what, with various amounts of weight on our trucks given having actually done the swap to MD (and eventually HD in the back) on my own and putting HD on another, fairly heavily laden, truck.
Which raises the question; what did the L8 guys do to confirm that a heavier than normal three would barely get above standard height? I haven't talked with them directly about this but based off a little time together at MAR I thought their work with coils was very much still in the works vice in execution.
It strikes me that there is a lot of assumptions built up about the effects of swapping but I'd be keen on knowing the actual weight of the vehicle over stock in conjunction with the capacity of the HD coils to keep it up.
Which raises the question; what did the L8 guys do to confirm that a heavier than normal three would barely get above standard height? I haven't talked with them directly about this but based off a little time together at MAR I thought their work with coils was very much still in the works vice in execution.
It strikes me that there is a lot of assumptions built up about the effects of swapping but I'd be keen on knowing the actual weight of the vehicle over stock in conjunction with the capacity of the HD coils to keep it up.
Somewhere I think I still have the CAT scale printout of my truck loaded for a weekend trip. Full fuel, partial water, (I was on my way home from the trip) without driver or passenger. I think it was around 7500 lbs.
What weight have I added? ARB front bumper, winch, custom steel rear bumper w/dual swing-outs, 33" tires including the spare, 5 gallon fuel jerrycan, Urban off-road rack carrying 4 maxtrax, axe, shovel, Oztent RV4, and full Roadshower, Tactical sliders, gas tank skid, and transfer case skid, 4' HiLift and extensive set of recovery gear, spares and tools, Dometic fridge (this replaced a seat, so probably a wash) plus cots, chairs, food and water, and assorted camping gear.
So yeah-it's pretty darn heavy. Too heavy for serious wheeling even if I did take her through the Rubicon. (once was enough - the new truck is SO much easier!)
All that aside, let's assume a heavier spring was able to lift me to my current normal driving height - that would be the stock off-road height. I'd still loose the ability to raise the truck to off-road height. OK, let's find custom springs that are heavy enough to get me up that high - now I'm going to be running around stressing the CVs due to high angles full time - also not great.
I suppose somebody could design a long-arm kit that could use coil-overs to replace the stock bags and give us all the lift we want without over-doing the CV angles, but I doubt there's a market for something so expensive. It would be interesting though.
What weight have I added? ARB front bumper, winch, custom steel rear bumper w/dual swing-outs, 33" tires including the spare, 5 gallon fuel jerrycan, Urban off-road rack carrying 4 maxtrax, axe, shovel, Oztent RV4, and full Roadshower, Tactical sliders, gas tank skid, and transfer case skid, 4' HiLift and extensive set of recovery gear, spares and tools, Dometic fridge (this replaced a seat, so probably a wash) plus cots, chairs, food and water, and assorted camping gear.
So yeah-it's pretty darn heavy. Too heavy for serious wheeling even if I did take her through the Rubicon. (once was enough - the new truck is SO much easier!)
All that aside, let's assume a heavier spring was able to lift me to my current normal driving height - that would be the stock off-road height. I'd still loose the ability to raise the truck to off-road height. OK, let's find custom springs that are heavy enough to get me up that high - now I'm going to be running around stressing the CVs due to high angles full time - also not great.
I suppose somebody could design a long-arm kit that could use coil-overs to replace the stock bags and give us all the lift we want without over-doing the CV angles, but I doubt there's a market for something so expensive. It would be interesting though.
No, clearly that would be the same for any amount of lift regardless of how it was obtained. I meant that if I had coils that could get me to the equivalent of rod-assisted off-road height (I normally only use this on an as-needed basis and do most of my trial running in normal+rods height) I would then be running full time at that height whereas I now only do that on occasion.
The concept of adjustable ride height is great. The execution sometimes isn't so great...hence the proliferation of coil conversions. Of course I realize I'm asking an awful lot of it and pushing it beyond it's original intent.
The concept of adjustable ride height is great. The execution sometimes isn't so great...hence the proliferation of coil conversions. Of course I realize I'm asking an awful lot of it and pushing it beyond it's original intent.
Ray_G
Explorer
Don-
I'm guessing your truck is prob...500-800lbs heavier than mine, when both are laden. That's based off me not having a steel rear bumper (just the swing away), lighter sliders, stock skids...and likely lighter camping gear than the RV & such.
All that being said, for the sake of discussion, I'm guessing the HD coils would get you to offroad height as you stipulated. As far as increased wear/tear, I haven't noticed it. Doesn't change your calculus mind you-but is a good discussion to have for all the folks who look to bolt on all manner of things that it will come with side effects. You use your truck as intended all the time, so it's a good example for folks to learn from.
To Javib00; yes- a +2" coil conversion to run 32's is pretty basic-and that simplicity gets you reliable behavior over and over. That's basically my truck for the last 50k.
r-
Ray
I'm guessing your truck is prob...500-800lbs heavier than mine, when both are laden. That's based off me not having a steel rear bumper (just the swing away), lighter sliders, stock skids...and likely lighter camping gear than the RV & such.
All that being said, for the sake of discussion, I'm guessing the HD coils would get you to offroad height as you stipulated. As far as increased wear/tear, I haven't noticed it. Doesn't change your calculus mind you-but is a good discussion to have for all the folks who look to bolt on all manner of things that it will come with side effects. You use your truck as intended all the time, so it's a good example for folks to learn from.
To Javib00; yes- a +2" coil conversion to run 32's is pretty basic-and that simplicity gets you reliable behavior over and over. That's basically my truck for the last 50k.
r-
Ray
Ray, so you believe based on your truck the HD coils would bring mine up to the OEM off road height?
I'm not jumping to coils just yet, but good to know. With my 33" tires I don't usually have to go above that height anyway since I've sort of 'demoted' the LR3 from hard trails to the easier stuff it's better suited for anyway. I wish there was a way to get coils to bring me up to the equivalent of off road height with rods without cobbling some sort of spacers in, yet at the same time not over-stress CVs.
For reference, which kit are you running again Ray? I've only know 2 guys locally who've gone coils. One like it, but his was pretty sketchy. The other doesn't, but I haven't gotten a specific reason why.
I'm not jumping to coils just yet, but good to know. With my 33" tires I don't usually have to go above that height anyway since I've sort of 'demoted' the LR3 from hard trails to the easier stuff it's better suited for anyway. I wish there was a way to get coils to bring me up to the equivalent of off road height with rods without cobbling some sort of spacers in, yet at the same time not over-stress CVs.
For reference, which kit are you running again Ray? I've only know 2 guys locally who've gone coils. One like it, but his was pretty sketchy. The other doesn't, but I haven't gotten a specific reason why.
Ray_G
Explorer
Don-
I'm running a mix; I swapped to the premium kit (OME MD springs) in Abu Dhabi but with the weight in the back + towing I bought the OME HD springs for the rear and put them in. Substantive differences in spring rates are +100kg (constant) for the MD, +200kg (constant) for the HD.
My truck has a steel winch bumper, with a synthentic line winch on the front. Dual batteries under the hood, plus OBA compressor and a few other bits (noco). Fairly lightweight tube sliders/steps, the prospeed rack (which is light), fridge in the middle seat config, and then a fairly robust setup of tools, recovery gear, spares, etc. Full size spare either on the swing away or under the truck. I do have the +13mm internal spacer in the back coil setup too. So I'm guessing I'm several hundred pounds lighter than you are apples to apples when loaded out-but I get a decent cant aft to fore with the HD's in the back. This is her stance under normal day to day load (swing away is off, but the frame is still on the bumper and the spare is under the truck):
Sag inherent with towing, while also fully laden for camping...this is acceptable to me given that I tow infrequently and eventually we'll get our own (much lighter than Uhaul) trailer for the S1:
I think if you decided to go to coils, went HD, and put the 13mm (that is a LR product, designed to assist in leveling suspensions ala all the other coil model lines trim packer spacers) you'd likely achieve a near offroad height stance day in/day out. That said, tough to know for certain-but figured it was worth the discussion.
r-
Ray