New Ranger/Bronco SFA rumor

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
As an aside, I always liked the Commando and I'm surprised they never really caught on. Jeep completely redesigned the front end for the last model year (which I think was 1972) and then dropped the model completely - I think this may have been about the time that Jeep was acquired by AMC so it may have been an AMC decision not to continue the Commando and to design the Cherokee (which was simply a 2 door version of the venerable Wagoneer) instead.
 

Comanche Scott

Expedition Leader
Exactly right Martin. :beer:
I typed that backwards. Thanks for the correction. :)

On a side note: I thought the Xterra was coming back as a redesign for 2018 with the same diesel option as they are looking at for the Frontier?
If it stays gone, that will be a real shame. It is another exceptionally capable SUV. Even more so with a diesel option.
 

Comanche Scott

Expedition Leader
As an aside, I always liked the Commando and I'm surprised they never really caught on. Jeep completely redesigned the front end for the last model year (which I think was 1972) and then dropped the model completely - I think this may have been about the time that Jeep was acquired by AMC so it may have been an AMC decision not to continue the Commando and to design the Cherokee (which was simply a 2 door version of the venerable Wagoneer) instead.

A friend of mine had a '70 Commando (if I remember the year right). I thought it was really cool too. It wasn't a very good driver though. Especially compared to the first gen Bronco. It was very '50s-ish compared to the '70s feeling Bronco.
I don't know what the demise was, but AMC deciding to drop it would make sense, based on their business strategy.
 

MagicMtnDan

2020 JT Rubicon Launch Edition & 2021 F350 6.7L
Not a rumor :)

From Ford:

Ranger and Bronco Return
Ford is bringing back the Ranger midsize pickup truck to its North American vehicle lineup in 2019 and Bronco midsize SUV to its global vehicle portfolio in 2020. Both vehicles will be manufactured at Ford's Michigan Assembly Plant in Wayne, Michigan.

“We've heard our customers loud and clear. They want a new generation of vehicles that are incredibly capable yet fun to drive,” said Joe Hinrichs, Ford's president of The Americas. “Ranger is for truck buyers who want an affordable, functional, rugged and maneuverable pickup that's Built Ford Tough. Bronco will be a no-compromise midsize 4x4 utility for thrill seekers who want to venture way beyond the city.”

Ford just released this pic of the upcoming Bronco:

2020-ford-bronco-render001-1.jpg

just kidding about the above pic

It'll likely look more like this:
fhzwngxxnrjsnxhgxp3m.png


And here's a link to an opinion piece on why the author doesn't believe Ford will make the Bronco and Ranger with solid front axles:
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-dont-believe-for-a-second-the-bronco-and-ranger-will-1791583247
 

Desert Dan

Explorer
The new Ranger and Everest exist in other countries.

My bet would be an Everest re-badged as the Bronco for the USA.
 

Desert Dan

Explorer
Not as much as you would think.

104" vs 119" wheelbase, 184" vs 205" overall.

To put it in context, the FJ Cruiser is similar in length and wheelbase as the Bronco, and the 100 series is pretty close to the Expedition.

The only reason they seem less capable is the lack of owners actually using them off road, and/or the lack of awareness (vis a vis social media and lack of cult following).

With that being said, the much older rumor surrounding the... 5th gen? Bronco is the frame and drivetrain (or at least the axles) will be shared with the new Jeep Wrangler. If that's the case, I can see the SFA rumor being true.

ETA: Hell I would be content with something like this:

View attachment 384067

View attachment 384068

The Raptor Wagon would be great!
 

Dalko43

Explorer
The Xterra isn't with us anymore.
4Runner sales are about half of what Wrangler sales are.

The Xterra is dead because Nissan kept using the same design for 10 years and refused to update it.
4runner sales have never been as high as Wrangler sales because of the price/quality difference between the two (there is a solid $10k difference between the entry-level models). You could also point out how Honda sells many more Accords than BMW sells 3-series, but no one is going to wonder why that is. That said, 4runner sales have been on a steady increase since 08, and sold over 110k this past year, which is not insignificant.

The BOF SUV segment is by no means dead, and the recent addition of the Colorado and rumored addition of the Ranger/Bronco seem to indicate that auto manufacturers see potential in that area.

The FJC was laughed at because it had IFS and a non-removable top, and wasn't real accessible to the aftermarket (that should tell you something right there when people were buying 10 shoddy-quality Wranglers for every one FJC...). It's exposed sticky-outie taillights and other points of it's styling weren't difficult to make fun of either.

I agree that the FJ's styling was somewhat controversial, but it's aftermarket support and it's overall offroad utility are hard to dispute. Pretty much any aftermarket company that makes Toyota accessories seems to have a section dedicated to the FJ, and the lack of initial market demand for them has turned them into pretty amazing bargains on the used market. Plenty of people wheel them hard; it's essentially built on the same platform as the 4runner and LC prado, so I'm not sure why you doubt its offroad abilities.

Ford's Explorer competes quite comparably with the current Grand Cherokee (very few GC buyers are taking them off road compared to buyers of Wranglers), Ford doesn't need another entry into that rather crowded segment.
And the new Cherokee Trailhawk may be "extreme" enough for some folks, but not for the hundreds of thousands of folks snapping up all those Wranglers each year.

I want the Ranger and Bronco to come to market, as I assume you do. I think there is plenty of enthusiasm for those types of vehicles. But I'm not sure why you feel the need to oversell your preferred brand, while underselling the other brands. The Jeep had been selling sub 200k until 2014, and even now it's only at ~250k...saying that they sell "hundreds of thousands" annually is a bit misleading.
 

4x4junkie

Explorer
The day I bought it, 6 miles on the clock.

View attachment 384145

That looks like a nice truck (you wasted no time getting a little mud on it too I see :) ).

So it sounds like you didn't have any real issue with the axle/suspension other than with the automatic hubs (which mechanically-engaged automatic hubs tend to be problematic no matter what axle they are on).
The suspension works very well for me... It's never given me trouble, even with tires, which I strongly believe is due to the upgraded steering linkage I put on it (at stock height, the stock linkage should normally be fine also). I've driven some Jeeps and old solid-axle trucks with some pretty scary handling, this is quite tame by comparison.



The Bronco was designed to compete with the Scout, not the CJ. The Scout was designed as an upscale sporty 4 wheel drive. opening a new market by offering folks a more comfortable and refined ride with a longer wheel base.
This market became the SUV, versus Jeep which was very entrenched in Utility Vehicle status.

The Bronco raised the bar on the Scout with a coil sprung front suspension system, and even nicer interior amenities.
Later when the Scout got bigger and more refined (i.e. the Scout-II), Chevy entered the game with the Blazer, and Ford followed suite with a redesigned bigger Bronco. Leaving Jeep behind, in the race to coddle the masses.
Jeep finally came out with the CJ8 to try and compete in the SUV market. Fortunately it was still all CJ and maintained it's utilitarian status. :)

Had the Bronco been designed to compete with the CJ, it would never have morphed into the big beast it became.

Journalists to this day draw parallels between SUVs and the Wrangler, but they are truly two different classes of vehicles. So it is easy to be confused, if you don't know the origins.

I disagree. The Scout was very much in the same market segment back then too (none of which were SUVs, they were all MPVs... The term "SUV" wasn't coined until the late-1980s or so). Ford's idea was to present a better and more comfortable option within that market segment (just like IH was trying to do too). It's all about competition and trying to appeal to the same buyers. Markets do evolve over time though, and sales of not just the Bronco, but the Jeep CJ and Scout too were all losing out to larger rivals such as GM's Blazer/Jimmy twins, Jeep's larger Wagoneer, and to some extent the Dodge Ramcharger/Trailduster. So it is then when Ford decided there would be more profit available in taking the Bronco bigger to better compete with those rivals.
I would agree however in today's market, the Wrangler is indeed now in a class all by itself, and is a VERY profitable vehicle that Fiat inherited. I think it would be great to see Ford give it some company.




4runner sales have never been as high as Wrangler sales because of the price/quality difference between the two (there is a solid $10k difference between the entry-level models).
Indeed there is. My point is people are willing to forgo that quality for a more crude (but much more durable/modifiable) vehicle. If you've noticed, many people have shelled out way more than (probably even double) what a 4Runner costs for their JK after the cost of all the accessories they've bought for it are factored in. I'm sure that if the 4Runner had something more to offer in that department, more would consider it instead.

I agree that the FJ's styling was somewhat controversial, but it's aftermarket support and it's overall offroad utility are hard to dispute. Pretty much any aftermarket company that makes Toyota accessories seems to have a section dedicated to the FJ, and the lack of initial market demand for them has turned them into pretty amazing bargains on the used market. Plenty of people wheel them hard; it's essentially built on the same platform as the 4runner and LC prado, so I'm not sure why you doubt its offroad abilities.
I didn't say there was no aftermarket for it. Certainly suspension lifts and some amount of bumpers and other stuff are available for the FJC. But compared to the Wrangler (TJ or JK) and all the armor pieces and the many-times-over amount of suspension and axle accessories they have, it pales quite badly. This is because of the Wrangler's much-more-accessible solid axle suspension, and a more utilitarian body design that is easier to design upgrade parts for (as opposed to having lots of swoopy curves & edges).
And it's also quite hard to dispute that a vehicle with solid axles tends to have an easier go of it on a rugged path than one having IFS (likely the one biggest thing all those Wrangler buyers are after, even if it's to present only an image that they actually go offroad).


I want the Ranger and Bronco to come to market, as I assume you do. I think there is plenty of enthusiasm for those types of vehicles. But I'm not sure why you feel the need to oversell your preferred brand, while underselling the other brands. The Jeep had been selling sub 200k until 2014, and even now it's only at ~250k...saying that they sell "hundreds of thousands" annually is a bit misleading.
Perhaps I should've been clearer on that... I meant hundreds of thousands as plural of a hundred thousand, of which 200K & up is. But regardless, that is no insignificant figure.
I'm no Ford loyalist (as someone else above seemed to think), I did give the new Colorado some serious interest when news first broke that it was returning... However when I was looking for a small pickup years ago, Ford was the one to have what I wanted (I still have that pickup too, it's been a great truck), and now that they seem to be in a good position to give the Wrangler company, my hope is to see something that I could potentially replace my BII with. The dang thing is 27 years old now and has probably the equivalent of 260K miles on it... I know better than to think it's going to last forever.
 
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TwinStick

Explorer
The trouble with Manufacturers is: they think they know what you want, better than you do. The result is usually a day late & a dollar short. They are still offering navigation when everyone has it on their phone. No matter how good the vehicle is, they kill it with all the electronic nannies. New Power Wagon is an example. Everyone who owns one is already looking for a way to disable the electronic nannies when off-road.

Maybe my 2008 G-56 Power Wagon will go up in value as a result, lol.............NOT.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Junkie, I think most people will acknowledge that the Wrangler's SFA does offer its advantages, especially offroad. The FJ Cruiser is decent at what it does and offers a nice balance between onroad and offroad performance...just because it doesn't have every single degree of axle articulation that the wrangler offers, doesn't mean it's a bad vehicle. Each vehicle has their own sets of pro's/con's, and the FJ certainly has a dedicated following within the overlanding community because of those pro's.

And yeah, the wrangler has always sold well here in the US...it's got the home field advantage and caters to a crowd that is nostalgic for the jeeps from years past. It's also cheaper and simpler relative to some of Toyota's and Ford, Chevy's offerings...so no one should be surprised that more of them sell or that there is a more extensive aftermarket support for it. Like I said, there is a reason the Honda Accord outsells the BMW 3-series.
 

04Ram2500Hemi

Observer
To this day I still miss my 1988 full size Ford Bronco. I bought it used in high school with 98,000 miles and it was love at first drive. Other than the stupid tailgate rust issue, it was damn near flawless. The big captain chair seats in the front were awesome, and it was big enough to be comfortable with four adults (minus that crawling over the front passenger seat to get to the back seat), but never too big for the mild trails I drive. Yes it was a little top heavy (fast corners and my Bronco never went ha d in hand), and yes the 3 speed automatic shifted like an angry dragon when kicked into passing gear on the highway. But with all that said, I still miss it. If Ford could bring back a Bronco that was about the same size as my 88 Bronco, I'd be really tempted to give it a serious look. I'd even overlook the eco-poop motor if they could prove the truck could be as good off road as my old Bronco was.
 

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