Overlanding in North America - Toyota Hilux Surf or Jeep Cherokee?

[kw90surf]

Hi all,


First post here! Not sure if I'm posting this in the right place, but here goes. Let me know if I should also post this in the Toyota forum.

In 6 months I graduate school and take a posting as a ship's officer where I will be working 28 days onboard, followed by 28 days off. With the way the leave system works, I can take a three-month stretch off every year to two years. Perfect work schedule for traveling.

I plan on kitting out a vehicle for overlanding when I get out of school, and was going to buy myself an 80 Series as a grad present, but I've decided to push that off for a few years and build one of the two vehicles I already have. What I haven't decided is which one to sell and which one to build.

The build would be (roughly speaking):

• OME 2-3" lift and reasonably over-sized ATs
• Rear locker
• Body armour (front bullbar w/winch, sliders, rear bumper with tire carrier)
• Snorkel
• Roof rack w/RTT and storage (or possibly a trailer?)
• Dual batteries
• Custom drawer system with power outlets, fridge/freezer, stove
• Etc.

Nothing crazy. I'm looking for moderate offroad capability, good road manners, dependability and reasonable MPG. I want to be able to do trips through the continental US and trips like the Dempster Highway up North.

The two vehicles I have are a 1990 Toyota Hilux Surf SSR and a 1997 Jeep Cherokee Sport.

The Toyota I bought in 2015 and immediately road-tripped from Saskatoon to Nova Scotia (4500km) without issue. It has the mechanically-injected 2L-TII turbo diesel and 5 speed R150F with a electronic part-time T-case and power everything. ~165,000km on it currently, 45,000 of which I put on myself. Service history is iffy. It drives like a low-km truck where most things haven't been molested, but someone has poked around under the hood and not done a good job. It had the head replaced before I bought it (yes, I know, I've done loads of research about the 2LT). It's had its niggles, but its been reliable. It's completely rust-free, drives tight and in really nice shape overall. I've de-smogged it and put a 3" exhaust on it.

The Cherokee I bought this year in Victoria BC after my work term finished, and road tripped it 6500km back to Nova Scotia 2 days later without a hitch. It's got the 4.0 with the AW4, NP242 T-case, 8.25 rear end and no power options. It's got 435,000km on it, but has clearly been well-maintained and not abused. It could use some freshening up all-around, but it runs great and averaged 23.5 MPG US on my trip back. It's also completely rust-free, original, and everything works.

As far as I see it, for an overland build, the Toyota:

• + Will get better MPG (I average 25 MPG with it right now)
• + More load capacity
• + Low kms
• + Already has dual batteries
• - Will need a custom roof rack set-up drilled into the roof
• - 55amp alternator
• - Engine will need to be modded to make more power
• - Engine EGT will need to be monitored to make sure it doesn't pop its head
• - Parts are much harder to come across in North America

And the Jeep:

• + More power
• + Bulletproof drivetrain
• + Parts very easy to get in North America
• + Aftermarket is better
• + More comfortable (has AC)
• - Worse MPG
• - High kms
• - Lower load capacity, might need unibody stiffeners?

Whichever one gets sold would fund the other. I could get significantly more for the Toyota.


Which would you guys choose and why?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Seems to me the question is how far off the beaten track you intend. Finding parts for a 2L, especially a modified one, won't be as easy as a 4.0L Jeep engine. Even in major cities I expect a dealer would have to order parts, although they should be able to find whatever you need in the parts catalog. With a gasoline Jeep you'll get anything you need in just about any city, town or village.

If it was me facing this I'd sell both and buy your 80 now. They ain't getting any cheaper or easier to find so might as well get started on it.

 

[kw90surf]

Thanks for the reply Dave. The parts availability and associated peace of mind has had me leaning Cherokee a bit, if they're a decent platform.

I have been watching the price of 80s go up over the last 3 years. I had been looking at FZJs with lockers, but with prices the way they are now I'd likely look at a 1991 or 92 FJ80.

 

[borison]

Keep them both, and then maybe get an 80 too. Do you have to sell? Those are pretty sweet rigs. Always nice to have a spare. And please don’t cut up the Jeep.

 

[kw90surf]

Keep them both, and then maybe get an 80 too. Do you have to sell? Those are pretty sweet rigs. Always nice to have a spare. And please don’t cut up the Jeep.

I wish I could, but having three 4wd wagons doesn't make much sense!

I'd consider getting an 80, and keeping one my current rigs and leaving it mostly stock as a DD. I don't want to cut either of them up, really! Finding either an old Toyota or Cherokee in atlantic Canada that isn't full of rust is next to impossible. The Cherokees hold up a bit better. I love the Toyota, but hard to say how much sense it makes as an overlander given its age, rarity and it being an import. The Cherokee is sweet, but doesn't have much for load capacity. It's also decidedly not as "cool" as the Toyota.

One thing that gives me a bit of pause is the 11-12 mpg I'll likely get with a loaded down 80. With a Cherokee, I could probably expect 15-17, no?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Cool is fine but it don't pay the bills. You'll see and experience just as much in a Cherokee. I'd keep the Surf more stock, it's relatively rare and interesting. Not so much so that easy trails and knocking around town would bug me (if I owned such a neat beast) but I wouldn't want to go nuts modifying and beating it up either.

Wouldn't bother me in the least to do that you a Cherokee, though. Or an 80 series.

There is another option. Get a diesel 80 series or do an engine swap perhaps. Getting an HZJ80 is probably not too difficult in Canada, right? Then you have all your bases covered, interesting, unique, functional.

 

[kw90surf]

Cool is fine but it don't pay the bills. You'll see and experience just as much in a Cherokee. I'd keep the Surf more stock, it's relatively rare and interesting. Not so much so that easy trails and knocking around town would bug me (if I owned such a neat beast) but I wouldn't want to go nuts modifying and beating it up either.

Wouldn't bother me in the least to do that you a Cherokee, though. Or an 80 series.

There is another option. Get a diesel 80 series or do an engine swap perhaps. Getting an HZJ80 is probably not too difficult in Canada, right? Then you have all your bases covered, interesting, unique, functional.

True enough. Easy trails and putting around town are pretty much what I do with the Toyota now, and it's great for that. Only thing I don't do is drive it in the winter, to keep the road salt off of it.

HDJ81's and HZJ's aren't all that hard to come across here, I would think the parts issue wouldn't be much better than the Surf though, eh? A 1991-1992 FJ80 with an Isuzu 4BD1T has piqued my interest.

 

[Mitch502]

You came to a Jeep forum and asked about driving a toyota or a jeep?

In all seriousness, if you're "full time adventuring" and don't have deadlines to meet, a diesel toyota would be cool. But to say the same thing: if something breaks, you're likely stuck in that place until you can order it from a dealer (if there is one) or a place online (if there aren't faster options).

Same for if you work on your own stuff...if you do, your issues end there. If you need someone to work on it, any diesel/Toyota mechanic SHOULD be able to do it, but you're going to be hard pressed to find a diesel toyota specialist....the Jeep on the other hand can be worked on by anyone, anywhere and you can have reasonable expectations that it was done right. Not sure it should be SUPER concerning, but something to mention.

 

[kw90surf]

Well, it looks like I'm sticking with the original plan. Found a well-maintained, rust-free 1991 FJ80 down in Montana that I've put a deposit down on. Planning to fly down and drive it back next month. Already has OME suspension, a Prinsu roof rack and a Cruisin' Offroad winch bumper fitted. Getting a good deal on it so I can see if I like the 80 series platform (never driven in one) and go from there.

The Hilux Surf will most likely be getting sold and the Jeep will stick around as a year-round daily driver. The Surf will fetch more money to fund the 80 build and the Jeep makes sense to keep around (and I just replaced every suspension component in it).

Cheers!

 

[stoverjoe]

runs great and averaged 23.5 MPG US on my trip back

thats about 5 mpg better than weve ever gotten in an xj over a distance... id hang on to that thing

 

[kw90surf]

thats about 5 mpg better than weve ever gotten in an xj over a distance... id hang on to that thing

Well, my driving style for that trip was: 96kph on cruise control, never let it drop out of OD/lockup, slow acceleration. But, it would manage numbers like that consistently even with a major leak in the exhaust manifold. Funny enough, after I replaced the manifold and muffler, replaced dead coolant and O2 sensors (they finally quit and caused it to run like a pig) and swapped out the 235/75R15 winter tires for equivalent Goodyear Wranglers, I drove similarly (100-105kph on cruise) for a long trip and averaged only 19 mpg. But, I did the return trip fully loaded with boxes at 125-140kph with no cruise control and averaged 18.2 mpg. Go figure.

Loving the 80 series, but still considering outfitting the Jeep for more mild trips (offroad/distance-wise). Having enough power to maintain speed effortlessly and still getting reasonable fuel mileage is nice. Missing the Hilux Surf dearly.

 

[plh]

Loving the 80 series, but still considering outfitting the Jeep for more mild trips (offroad/distance-wise). Having enough power to maintain speed effortlessly and still getting reasonable fuel mileage is nice. Missing the Hilux Surf dearly.

10 to 12 mpg with the 80?

 

[billiebob]

swapped out the 235/75R15 winter tires for equivalent Goodyear Wranglers, I drove similarly (100-105kph on cruise) for a long trip and averaged only 19 mpg. But, I did the return trip fully loaded with boxes at 125-140kph with no cruise control and averaged 18.2 mpg. Go figure.

TIRES are the secret to great gas mileage.

After years of 33s, 35s, I found 7.50R16s and 6" rims to fit my TJR. From a best of 17mpg with 33s if I drove like a granny, I now get 22mpg regardless of how I drive. 5mpg might not sound like lots but that is an extra 95 miles between gas stops. The equivalent of carrying 2 jerry cans.

Now back to a full stock suspension, no lift and loving it.
I get 19mpg towing my square drop at 60mph. I got 12-14 with 33s.


And cruise control will not give better gas mileage than a sensitive foot.

 

[kw90surf]

10 to 12 mpg with the 80?

When I had 31's on the 80, it averaged in the high 16 mpg range on the way back from Montana, with a couple tanks in the 17-18 mpg range and a best of 18.5 mpg. That was loaded down, including a full-float rear axle loaded in the back. No roof load, speeds around 60 mph. Around town average was 13 mpg-ish then.

Swapped to a set of 33x10.50 BFG ATs and now I'm down to 11ish in town and 12-14 on a longer trip. The gearing is out of wack now and it's not really "happy" at any speed. Will be doing something about that.

TIRES are the secret to great gas mileage.

After years of 33s, 35s, I found 7.50R16s and 6" rims to fit my TJR. From a best of 17mpg with 33s if I drove like a granny, I now get 22mpg regardless of how I drive. 5mpg might not sound like lots but that is an extra 95 miles between gas stops. The equivalent of carrying 2 jerry cans.

Now back to a full stock suspension, no lift and loving it.
I get 19mpg towing my square drop at 60mph. I got 12-14 with 33s.
View attachment 559934

And cruise control will not give better gas mileage than a sensitive foot.

That's a nice looking TJ billiebob. Understated, functional and I bet it's plenty capable. Based on the experiences I'm having as well it looks like tires are a huge factor. My Hilux Surf didn't seem to care about tire size, tread, lift height, aerodynamics, weight or driving conditions/habits. Backwoods driving in the Cape Breton highlands for the weekend, empty on the highway, loaded down city driving, I could always count on around 23-25mpg. A 2.4L diesel can only burn so much fuel I guess.

I went with a 10.50 width AT on the 80 because I hoped to keep the rolling resistance as close to the 31's as possible, but I think the gearing mismatch just has it working too hard now.

With regards to cruise control, my technique was to use it on the flats, and then on a hill I would allow the pedal to be depressed just to the point before it would kick down, then I would take it out of cruise and hold it there with my foot, allow it to lose speed. Once at the top of the hill I would bring it back up to speed without letting it downshift, then resume cruise. I'll give conscientious non-cruise control driving a go next time I take a longer highway trip and see what I get.

 

[kw90surf]

Also, I have yet to acquire a roof tent for the 80. I'm sure I'll be down in the 10-11mpg range on trips at that point.