Pop up Camper LiFePO4 system

[Mlachica]

I have a flat bed hawk. One challenge will be to find a spot for the inverter/charger. What is you plan to locate that piece of gear?

I sold my flatbed hawk. I did consider putting an inverter with the rest of the electronics in the step to the bed, not a lot of space in there though. If you did an inverter charger, you could replace the shore charger and gain a little more space, still may be too small of a location though.

 

[Rando]

I would be a little careful with the recommendations on the BattleBorn website. They are treading a very thin line with the 'drop in lead acid replacement' batteries. This has been discussed to death here, but the company line is that their batteries will work with systems designed for lead acid - which is true to an extent. As a result they recommend/sell a bunch of accessories that are really lead acid specific and publish charge parameters that cover the normal lead acid range. However, their batteries will last longer and work better with systems that are actually designed from the ground up to work with the LiFePO4 chemistry.

To give an example, float charging of LiFePO4 batteries reduces their lifespan. The Redarc charger will float charge your battery even in lithium modes - which you don't want. The way around this either to do away with float charging all together, or set the float charge voltage to ~13.2V, at which point the battery won't charge.

Anyway, my point is don't always believe the marketing material, and if you are starting our with a lithium system buy equipment with programmable set points that can be set to the optimun values for lithium (which is not the Redarc).

 

[shade]

I am considering the sterling latch r that justin recommended. I really don't see myself over consuming the batteries, I'm usually overly aware of it's status, but accidents happen. If I do use this relay, I'd probably use it to isolate ALL load from the battery as a last resort of preventing deep discharge.

?

That's how it should be used, as a protective measure. HVCs & LVCs are there for when something goes wrong, with charge sources programmed to terminate charging before the HVC needs to act, and a human recognizing that running the battery to 0% is a bad idea.

 

[john61ct]

Yes industry reco / standards for LFP care are not conducive to longevity

Best is cut off non-essential loads much earlier than the last-ditch BMS protection LVC.

At low amps should not get near 3.0Vpc, 3.3 or 3.2 lowest.

High current loads might dip down close to 3.0, but bounce back up to say 3.1-3.2Vpc at rest.

For charging, best to hold 3.45Vpc as Absorb, but that is likely not high enough to start the (stupid design) BMS balancing.

I don't reco drop-ins at all myself, better to buy quality cells and choose your own protective electronics.

Or just stick to lead.

 

[Mlachica]

It's worth noting that the Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC chargers aren't VE.Direct; they have bluetooth built in for monitoring and setup purposes, but (currently) no VE.Smart networking capabilities (may change with later FW updates) and no VE.Direct port, so no communication to a CCGX/Venus/etc. I still concur, though... the ease of their setup alone (compared to Sterling or other DC-DC manufacturers) is worth the wait, if you can.

so to confirm, this is the model you guys are suggesting?

Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated - Victron Energy

The Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC charger is a professional DC to DC adaptive 3-stage charger with built-in Bluetooth. For use in dual battery systems in...

www.victronenergy.com

Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-30A Isolated DC-DC Charger with built-in Bluetooth

Part Number: ORI121236120

www.solar-electric.com

where are you guys finding release date info?

 

[john61ct]

The Victron North America guy and Alan at Bay-Marine said container is in transit

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I'm also currently researching DCDC stuff and was thinking of an all Victron system like my last one..

I'm gonna briefly hi-jack Marks thread to ask opinions on this unit for a 1020ah bank of AGM's?

12v to 12v Sterling Power ProBattC IP68 BBW12120 waterproof DC input battery to battery charger

Sterling Power Products new 12Volt input to 12Volt output 120Amp Waterproof IP66 Battery to Battery Charger. Most Powerful DC powered Battery to Battery Charger now available!

www.sterling-power-usa.com

Thanks

 

[Justin Cook]

I'm also currently researching DCDC stuff and was thinking of an all Victron system like my last one..

I'm gonna briefly hi-jack Marks thread to ask opinions on this unit for a 1020ah bank of AGM's?

12v to 12v Sterling Power ProBattC IP68 BBW12120 waterproof DC input battery to battery charger

Sterling Power Products new 12Volt input to 12Volt output 120Amp Waterproof IP66 Battery to Battery Charger. Most Powerful DC powered Battery to Battery Charger now available!

www.sterling-power-usa.com

Thanks

I like them. They're a PITA to program initially (all programming is done by triggering an internal magnetic reed switch, since there aren't any buttons) but depending on the recommended charge profile of your particular AGMs you may well be able to leave the default charge settings in place; once they're programmed and properly connected/fused, they're pretty bulletproof. We distribute them, and although I do see a few returns cross my test bench from time to time, 95% of the failures I see in them are caused by external factors like incorrect connection, incorrect fusing, substandard wire gauge, and off-brand breakers and fusing being used. The units themselves, if properly connected and suitably protected with other quality components, offer excellent set-it-and-forget-it performance.
Be advised that Sterling rates their B2B chargers by current draw from the start battery, not current delivery to the house bank, so that BBW12120 will pull up to 120A from your start battery and will deliver (depending on cable lengths and gauge) anywhere from ~90-105A maximum to your house bank.

 

[john61ct]

BB series IMO better than BBW for installation inside the living space, also don't need the remote to user-customize setpoints.

But 120A is nice, I guess Charles never did get a round tuit on the high-amp BBs that we were promised a few years ago 8-(

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Be advised that Sterling rates their B2B chargers by current draw from the start battery, not current delivery to the house bank, so that BBW12120 will pull up to 120A from your start battery and will deliver (depending on cable lengths and gauge) anywhere from ~90-105A maximum to your house bank.

Yikes!!! Thats some good and very important info! Thanks

 

[john61ct]

Be advised that Sterling rates their B2B chargers by current draw from the start battery, not current delivery to the house bank, so that BBW12120 will pull up to 120A from your start battery

I realize a nit pick, and such phrasing is used by Charles as well, but

the charge current is usually drawn from the actual energy source, in this case the alternator, **not from the battery** that happens to be on the source circuit side.

Only if the target-side (House) bank + loads is able to draw amps at a higher rate than the actual energy source (alternator) can supply, will any current be pulled from the source-side (Starter) **battery** itself.

 

[Justin Cook]

I realize a nit pick, and such phrasing is used by Charles as well, but

the charge current is usually drawn from the actual energy source, in this case the alternator, **not from the battery** that happens to be on the source circuit side.

Only if the target-side (House) bank + loads is able to draw amps at a higher rate than the actual energy source (alternator) can supply, will any current be pulled from the source-side (Starter) **battery** itself.

Hmmmm well I see your point, but since the unit connects to the start battery, not the alternator, that's why I -and Charles- word it as such; the BB and BBW chargers connect to the start battery and (when start battery is at "charging" voltage like ~13.6), draws current from the start battery that is then replenished by the alternator, but technically speaking the immediate source is the start battery... for strictly alternator-to-battery charging, with the energy source being the alternator directly, that would be a Sterling Alternator-to-Battery charger such as the AB12160.
It's sort of semantics, but also sort of not. Under normal conditions, of course, it's absolutely semantics because the alternator is putting all the current back into the start battery that the BB/W is pulling out but, as you say, if the alternator cannot keep up with the current draw from the start battery, the start battery will eventually become depleted until the voltage drops below the Sterling's set voltage cutoff threshold.

 

[john61ct]

In normal operation, no current is drawn from the Starter at all.

Easy to see with a coulomb counter including your BMV.

The suggestion to install at the battery post is to get cleaner input, dampen the alternator's spikes/drops/surges to help ensure reliability / longevity.

With other cleaner charge sources, there is no longer a need to use the buffering battery posts as the connection point.

Charles' choice to use that phrasing does cause confusion among noobs.

It is **possible** to use the Sterling B2B to charge from one battery bank to another (no actual power input source active) but rarely would that be a good idea.

 

[john61ct]

Does the new Victron DCDC unit recommend attaching directly at the posts of the battery on the source side circuit?

 

[shade]

Does the new Victron DCDC unit recommend attaching directly at the posts of the battery on the source side circuit?

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Orion-Tr-Smart-Charger-Isolated-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE-IT.pdf

Yes, sort of.
Page 7 for a diagram.