Redtop Optima is close to dead

[Corey]

This has been a great battery since 2010 when it was put in as a second battery in my FJ.
It ran the new National Luna fridge I got last September just fine too.

Yesterday I packed up some vittles in the fridge and ran it during the day and it got down to cooling temps.
Overnight though when I got in the rig this morning to drive to work it was down to 10.9v, and before it would still be in the 12v+ range overnight.

Driving to work I could hear the alternator humming full time charging up both batteries at around 13.0v.
Normally I see a voltage of around 13.5 to 14v when driving, so I know the Optima is starting to die.

This is the one I have in the rig now, a 34/78 Redtop.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00075OSC4/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I1MRBSQ3868GRW&colid=1EDMBXGW5D531

It lists it as a starting battery actually, so should I be going with the Yellowtop instead?
https://www.amazon.com/Optima-Batte...-1&keywords=optima+batteries+34/78+yellow+top

And yes, I have to go with the Optima brand, as my aux. battery tray that was installed long ago only will work with the Optima shape.

 

[john61ct]

If that is actually true, you have two choices: change the tray or settle for a short lifespan.

Those are all "dual purpose", actually just robust starters, no matter what their marketing says, not designed for years of true deep cycling.

Of course, third option find another spot. Best value is 2x 6v East Penn/Deka "Duracell" GC2s from Sam's or B+, only $180 for 230+AH at 20-hour rate.

Costco's Interstate ones not bad either.

Don't buy anything with a CCA rating, nor any 12V from any big box.

 

[Corey]

Thanks John, under the hood of FJs it is very tight and not much room.
Barely had room for the present mount, so I am pretty stuck with it as it was designed for the FJs.
Will probably go with the Yellowtop, but I wonder if they make a bigger capacity with the same dimensions.

I also ran my old ARB fridge all the time on the stock Panasonic Toyota battery for up to 4 to 5 days without starting the rig, and it started right up, but was a little hesitant.
That is when I ran my old Yellowtop in the aux. position for an emergency only stating battery if the stock one died, but nothing was attached to it back then.
That old Yellowtop only lasted a few years without anything going to it, I think it was a bad one.

The Redtop however has been pretty good lasting 7 years, same as the stock Toyota battery.
I am on a new Toyota battery now for about 2 years or so.

The only items hooked up to the aux battery is the ARB dual air compressor, Yaesu 857D radio, and the fridge.
And the rig always gets started when running the compressor, as that pulls a lot of amps.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

In that application, the Yellow would be a better choice than the Red. You should also be able to fit another 34/78, like an Odyssey 1500 or a Northstar. My battery boxes are generic, but all my holddowns that work with Optimas also work with Odysseys as long as the terminals are in the same orientation.

Re your old short-lived Yellow: Optima was building crap when they moved production to Mexico, so you may have had one of those. I swore off Optima after that experience, but went back a few years ago and the new ones have been fine. I have a pair of Yellows in one truck and a pair of Blues in another truck with no issues.

 

[Corey]

Ducky, here is a pic of the box.
I think only the Optimas can fit it.
Several years ago when the Yellowtop took a dump, Sears was going to put in an Odyssey, but it would not fit.

 

[PhulesAU]

Wouldn't even consider another optima. QC over the last couple of years has gone into the toilet.

 

[Corey]

Wouldn't even consider another optima. QC over the last couple of years has gone into the toilet.

I thought so too, but I have seen some pretty positive reviews out there, perhaps they got their shiest together.

 

[DiploStrat]

Alternator?

...
Driving to work I could hear the alternator humming full time charging up both batteries at around 13.0v.
Normally I see a voltage of around 13.5 to 14v when driving, so I know the Optima is starting to die.

Hmmm. 13v is next to useless for lead acid. Most times when I have had a battery die suddenly, it has been due to failure of the alternator.

I defer to dwh and other gurus as to what voltage you should see, but I would expect that with the engine running, even with a weak battery, you should see the higher voltages you mentioned.

You might want to get the opinion of someone who knows better than me and check your charging system before you throw any new battery in there. Otherwise you risk to simply kill the new battery as well.

 

[Corey]

The Optimas are AGMs, but my fridge was running too once I started up the rig.
The safety had kicked in on the fridge and it cycled off since the Optima was below a good charge, and the fridge had gone from 35 degrees up to around 46 degrees or more.
So driving into work the alternator was having to charge up both, hence why the 13v reading.

The charging system was just checked a short time back during the last oil change, so it is good.

 

[NevadaLover]

We have been using optimas for over at decade in the fleet I work for and haven't had much in the way of problems with them, if you take the battery out and do an automatic slow charge, like 1 amp, and let it charge until the light comes on they generally come back to full use, it might take a couple of days but they seem to recover just fine that way, we bought a special charger just for optimas once and it wasn't all the salesman made it out to be, seemed like the cheap auto slow charger worked better!

 

[DiploStrat]

Just to be Pedantic

The Optimas are AGMs, ...
So driving into work the alternator was having to charge up both, hence why the 13v reading.

The charging system was just checked a short time back during the last oil change, so it is good.

AGM = Lead Acid

I would do another check. I have never seen a 13v reading on a voltmeter, except with the engine off. You may be right, but even with a Toyota you should be seeing closer to 13.9v. (Unless dwh tells me that I am full of stuff and a dead battery will, in fact, pull down the voltage. With the engine running, I would expect the voltmeter to show the voltage of the charging system, not the voltage of the battery.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Corey]

OK, started up the rig and both voltages inside the cab read 14v to start out with, and on the way home the voltage settled down to 13.9, then on the freeway around 13.6.
This is the way it normally behaves, and when I turn the rig off the batteries read around 12.4.
The rig always starts up fast the next morning with the stock Toyota battery.

I do believe this morning with the fridge kicking in when I started up the rig and the aux battery got down to 10.9 it put a strain on the system, especially since it was still feeding the fridge.
It just started happening, as before I could start the rig up in the morning and fire up the fridge from being warm, and the voltages would be high.
Even coming out to the rig 12 hours later with the fridge still running, the aux. battery never got below 12.4 or so.
Park the rig for the night with the fridge still running, and it would drop to around 12. to 12.2, not bad.

What we have hear sounds like a Redtop giving up the ghost.
It has had a long seven years which in battery years is around the time to replace it.

Les Schwab is putting in a Yellowtop Wednesday morning, gotta love their warranty on stuff too.
If it fails, they replace it.
Will keep an eye on this one and see what the voltage is with the rig off, running, and of course the voltage sitting overnight with the fridge running.

I have not put any meter leads on the battery, just going by the dual voltage gauge I had installed earlier in the year that is in the lower console.

 

[DiploStrat]

OK, started up the rig and both voltages inside the cab read 14v to start out with, and on the way home the voltage settled down to 13.9, then on the freeway around 13.6.
This is the way it normally behaves, and when I turn the rig off the batteries read around 12.4.
The rig always starts up fast the next morning with the stock Toyota battery.

..

I would agree; sounds like your alternator is working. There is, however, one more test. Put an ammeter on the wire. I have seen alternators produce voltage but not amperage. (Which is, of course, what they do when they read the starter battery as fully charged.)

(Sorry, just trying to be helpful.)

Good luck!

 

[Ducky's Dad]

when I turn the rig off the batteries read around 12.4

That is way below a full charge for an Optima. Resting OCV should be 13.1 or 13.2 at 100% SOC, depending on whether it is a Red or a Yellow. Short trips might be sulfating your batteries. As pointed out by another poster, Optimas respond well to conditioning charges on shore power with an appropriate multi-stage charger, like a Ctek or an Optima branded charger, among others. If you are committed to installing the new battery (probably a good idea), keep the old one until you get a conditioning charger. Those batteries can sit for a year out of the truck and still hold most of their charge.

 

[Corey]

I would agree; sounds like your alternator is working. There is, however, one more test. Put an ammeter on the wire. I have seen alternators produce voltage but not amperage. (Which is, of course, what they do when they read the starter battery as fully charged.)

(Sorry, just trying to be helpful.)

Good luck!

Thanks!

That is way below a full charge for an Optima. Resting OCV should be 13.1 or 13.2 at 100% SOC, depending on whether it is a Red or a Yellow. Short trips might be sulfating your batteries. As pointed out by another poster, Optimas respond well to conditioning charges on shore power with an appropriate multi-stage charger, like a Ctek or an Optima branded charger, among others. If you are committed to installing the new battery (probably a good idea), keep the old one until you get a conditioning charger. Those batteries can sit for a year out of the truck and still hold most of their charge.

I believe I also know why the Optima is down in voltage besides being old.
I subscribe to a YouTube channel from Australia that sells products under the name "Kick @ss Products."
They sell solar, fridges, and dual battery stuff.
However most of their dual batteries are like the ArkPak where they are in a case with USB ports, 12v ports, Anderson plugs, etc.
But you wire it up still to your starting battery, and you use a thing he refers to as a DC DC Charger.
He goes on how most alternators cannot charge up the aux battery to it potential, hence why they sell the DC DC Charger that gets wired into the system..
https://www.youtube.com/user/AustralianDirect

My commute to work is short, a little less than a 30 mile trip daily, so I am guessing this not enough to get the Optima topped off daily.
I will keep an eye on the new Yellowtop I am getting, and I may be looking into one of the chargers you mentioned.
Can you use those when the battery is still in the rig?
I cannot be taking the battery out of the rig all the time.
Once it is sitting in its tray, it is there until it croaks