I know that this is a strange comparison to do but I am looking for opinions from anyone that has owned (or still own) both. The primary use of the truck will be as a daily driver occasional wheeling/trails. Looking for reliability and capability. I understand that they are vastly different as far as luxury/electronics/comfort are concerned but my question is about reliability. looking to spend in the low 20's. Pretty mechanically inclined but major repairs would be done at an indy shop. Thanks
Reliability of RR L322 2009 and Defender 110 (or 130 HC) 1985-90
- Thread starter lbg500
- Start date
Well adding the RRC into the list, how would reliability be compared to a L322 09? I am familiar with the issues from the different L322 years/engines. I had an 05 years ago that was terribly unreliable. Truthfully I want less electronics but I am not sure how reliable mechanically the older trucks are going to be. Would I be trading electrical problems for more mechanical problems?
I have seen 80's defenders in decent shape go for low 20's. Not restored and not completely rusted through. 130's seem to be in the 40's but it also seems like they produced many more in the late 80's that should be available for import now.
I have seen 80's defenders in decent shape go for low 20's. Not restored and not completely rusted through. 130's seem to be in the 40's but it also seems like they produced many more in the late 80's that should be available for import now.
Old Land Rovers are not for everyone,
I love them (I work on them, they are my hobby) but they sure have problems and are not easy to live with.
If you want a daily-ish driver, go with a newer Land Rover for sure, still will take you to most places you dare to go.
Now if you have a soft spot for noisy, smelly, uncomfortable amazing offroaders, then go with a Defender, you will love it no matter how many times you need to repair it.
I had 6 Land Rovers since 1994, I have gone offroad with them in Europe, Africa and America, and only a couple of times, I had to call the tow truck.
I get mad at them, I hate them some days, but mostly I like this old things, if you keep it properly mechanicals are sound, if you try to build a crazy offroader with big tires and stuff, you will break it even more often...
Now addressing your question, first let's assume they are all in very good shape and well maintained:
The Defender of that age, will be the simplest to maintain and work on, the most uncomfortable, forget about heater or A/C (even if it has it, is mostly useless)
The RRC is amazing, very comfortable, A/C, heater should work OK, it could even have leather and some luxuries, it's pretty much like the Defender but refined (and more complex)
The L322 is a great truck, the couple of times I drove them, I love them, nice, comfortable, powerful, but if you plan to go overlanding far away from "civilization" forget about this one,...
That's my opinion anyway, so take it for what is worth...
I love them (I work on them, they are my hobby) but they sure have problems and are not easy to live with.
If you want a daily-ish driver, go with a newer Land Rover for sure, still will take you to most places you dare to go.
Now if you have a soft spot for noisy, smelly, uncomfortable amazing offroaders, then go with a Defender, you will love it no matter how many times you need to repair it.
I had 6 Land Rovers since 1994, I have gone offroad with them in Europe, Africa and America, and only a couple of times, I had to call the tow truck.
I get mad at them, I hate them some days, but mostly I like this old things, if you keep it properly mechanicals are sound, if you try to build a crazy offroader with big tires and stuff, you will break it even more often...
Now addressing your question, first let's assume they are all in very good shape and well maintained:
The Defender of that age, will be the simplest to maintain and work on, the most uncomfortable, forget about heater or A/C (even if it has it, is mostly useless)
The RRC is amazing, very comfortable, A/C, heater should work OK, it could even have leather and some luxuries, it's pretty much like the Defender but refined (and more complex)
The L322 is a great truck, the couple of times I drove them, I love them, nice, comfortable, powerful, but if you plan to go overlanding far away from "civilization" forget about this one,...
That's my opinion anyway, so take it for what is worth...
i like noisy, smelly uncomfortable old trucks, just don't want to be stranded somewhere. do not plan to heavily modify any of the choices. just minor lift and 32-33" tires, roof racks, brush guards etc.
what year of the rrc would be most mechanically reliable and fewest electronics? if i recall 95 has airbags, abs and other electronic upgrades. do they cause much of a problem for you?
what year of the rrc would be most mechanically reliable and fewest electronics? if i recall 95 has airbags, abs and other electronic upgrades. do they cause much of a problem for you?
DoKarider16
Observer
I have been researching this same scenario for a while now and have been daily driving a RRC for about 6 years now. I agree that finding a defender in your price range that will be a nice useable vehicle could be tough. I keep lusting after the Defenders just because of the cool factor, but the RRC is super comfortable and capable. I don't think I want to give up the comfort on the highway for the cool looks as well as being about 4 times as much on the initial purchase.
I have been looking into the L322 and absolutely love them but have not owned one. From what I have read and gleaned from experts the L322 can be fairly reliable especially the 06 and up variety with 08 and up having some advancements that sound nice but I am not remembering exactly what they are. To me the big difference is that the RRC takes a constant bit of attention. It is robust and fairly simple. Mine have been pretty reliable but I pay attention to them and don't get behind on routine maintenance. The L322 should take less constant tinkering but be bigger repair bills when needed. Just some of what I have learned from my research. The LR3 platform makes more sense but I don't love it as much as the L322.
I have been looking into the L322 and absolutely love them but have not owned one. From what I have read and gleaned from experts the L322 can be fairly reliable especially the 06 and up variety with 08 and up having some advancements that sound nice but I am not remembering exactly what they are. To me the big difference is that the RRC takes a constant bit of attention. It is robust and fairly simple. Mine have been pretty reliable but I pay attention to them and don't get behind on routine maintenance. The L322 should take less constant tinkering but be bigger repair bills when needed. Just some of what I have learned from my research. The LR3 platform makes more sense but I don't love it as much as the L322.
my wife has an lr3 and it has been very reliable for the 6 months or so that she's had it. no issues other than brake switch replacement which took all of 2 minutes. that is what makes me consider the L322 07-09
i am fine with maintenance but want to just get in and drive. like a tractor that sits for 3 months and starts right up, does its job and gets parked again
i am fine with maintenance but want to just get in and drive. like a tractor that sits for 3 months and starts right up, does its job and gets parked again
Yeah the 1995 has ABS, Airbags, Air suspension and many more things.
Air suspension was disabled when I got it, ABS has not failed much (it had a couple missing sensors and the brake switch was faulty)
Airbags don't work anymore, it has the SRS light, as I had in my last 3 or 4 Land Rovers
The security system was doing weird stuff, bypassed it, added my own locking system.
And so on.
So far so good, complex? more than a 1990 Defender for sure, specially if it is diesel.
My 1977 is pretty much untouched for months, outside, usually when I go there, charge battery and starts right up ready for anything
So if you want simple/reliable, older for sure
If you want just reliable, newer the better, QA in LR is much better recently than back in the previous century...
Air suspension was disabled when I got it, ABS has not failed much (it had a couple missing sensors and the brake switch was faulty)
Airbags don't work anymore, it has the SRS light, as I had in my last 3 or 4 Land Rovers
The security system was doing weird stuff, bypassed it, added my own locking system.
And so on.
So far so good, complex? more than a 1990 Defender for sure, specially if it is diesel.
My 1977 is pretty much untouched for months, outside, usually when I go there, charge battery and starts right up ready for anything
So if you want simple/reliable, older for sure
If you want just reliable, newer the better, QA in LR is much better recently than back in the previous century...
i'm wondering where the # came from?
$20K for a D110 is going to be off the boat, RHD, and you take it from there money.. which could mean a lot of work or a little depending on the truck, engine, frame and a host of other stuff..
anyway...
Defenders CAN be reliable... just not in a Toyota sorta way... what i mean is that you have to keep on top of everything.. Maintenance, rust, fluids, you name it.. i probably spend 15-20 hours/month doing stuff to my Defender 90 (a NAS 1995), that does include upgrades and a bunch of maintenance stuff which i try and space out.. Diff oil, engine oil, fixing the random CEL (~45 times before i got the actual cause....), plotting my next change, such as reworking the right side exhaust pipe so that the O2 Sensor does not contact the drive shaft when compressed on the trail kinda stuff..
That said.. i don't hesitate to drive it 1,300 miles round trip (3 weeks ago), or jump in it and take it to the beach (right now in fact) or hit the trail pretty much when ever i can, which is a lot.
I know, & My family knows that it takes a lot of work to keep in top condition and we deal with it to enjoy it. I regularly take my girls camping in it too... Rarely has it left me on the side of the road with my head under the hood for more than a few hours.
If your going to pay for most of your work to be done, buy a Toyota, i'm serious... (and not trying to be a smart ***)
I have one for my wife and i don't touch it, yet, until its mine then i will still pay for a lot of the work to be done on it.. even then the plan for her Next Truck is another Toyota (4Runner this time)
I might be convinced to buy her a 2008+ RR but after the last couple and the joy of spending $500 for an oil change i am kinda over it, and i really don't have time for 2 high touch trucks.
i won't touch a BMW engine rover (L322 unto 2008) .. too many issues were fixed in 08-09' (09 being a better choice and 2010 better still for non-Supercharged trucks)..
My 2 cents.. feel free to ignore..
On the RRC.. here is a 1995 for sale - that i just had Eye's on (not as a buyer or anything and was just looking as i was picking up my hard top there ... http://www.defendersource.com/forum/f8/1995-white-rrc-for-sale-swb-67221.html )
$20K for a D110 is going to be off the boat, RHD, and you take it from there money.. which could mean a lot of work or a little depending on the truck, engine, frame and a host of other stuff..
anyway...
Defenders CAN be reliable... just not in a Toyota sorta way... what i mean is that you have to keep on top of everything.. Maintenance, rust, fluids, you name it.. i probably spend 15-20 hours/month doing stuff to my Defender 90 (a NAS 1995), that does include upgrades and a bunch of maintenance stuff which i try and space out.. Diff oil, engine oil, fixing the random CEL (~45 times before i got the actual cause....), plotting my next change, such as reworking the right side exhaust pipe so that the O2 Sensor does not contact the drive shaft when compressed on the trail kinda stuff..
That said.. i don't hesitate to drive it 1,300 miles round trip (3 weeks ago), or jump in it and take it to the beach (right now in fact) or hit the trail pretty much when ever i can, which is a lot.
I know, & My family knows that it takes a lot of work to keep in top condition and we deal with it to enjoy it. I regularly take my girls camping in it too... Rarely has it left me on the side of the road with my head under the hood for more than a few hours.
If your going to pay for most of your work to be done, buy a Toyota, i'm serious... (and not trying to be a smart ***)
I have one for my wife and i don't touch it, yet, until its mine then i will still pay for a lot of the work to be done on it.. even then the plan for her Next Truck is another Toyota (4Runner this time)
I might be convinced to buy her a 2008+ RR but after the last couple and the joy of spending $500 for an oil change i am kinda over it, and i really don't have time for 2 high touch trucks.
i won't touch a BMW engine rover (L322 unto 2008) .. too many issues were fixed in 08-09' (09 being a better choice and 2010 better still for non-Supercharged trucks)..
My 2 cents.. feel free to ignore..
On the RRC.. here is a 1995 for sale - that i just had Eye's on (not as a buyer or anything and was just looking as i was picking up my hard top there ... http://www.defendersource.com/forum/f8/1995-white-rrc-for-sale-swb-67221.html )
Last edited:
yes, that is why I was originally looking for 07+ .... have heard good thing about their reliability, 09 being the best year as I can tell since in 10 i think more electronics were added/updated.
I was basing that off of my research on here and other defender lr forums. Certainly people are asking 130k for defenders that have been "refurbished" but all the best to people paying those prices. They are all over the place outside the US for 6-10k USD in decent shape. Importing under 25 year rule about another 5-7k + 5k profit for the importer. That is not terribly crazy and is being done with g-wagons left and right around the same years. Which of my numbers are extremely off?
i encourage you head over to Defendersource.com -
Importation is around ~3k via Dividing creek (doug) for the process and pickup at the port. Yes you can find Defenders all day long in europe for 5-10K usd, but there are lots of gotchas which could lead to a rejection at the port (a new chassis for instance). So like i said ~20K will get you a RHD fresh off the boat which could mean extensive work is needed, new bulkheads due to rust, engines that were good only for the RoRo, etc.
Importation is around ~3k via Dividing creek (doug) for the process and pickup at the port. Yes you can find Defenders all day long in europe for 5-10K usd, but there are lots of gotchas which could lead to a rejection at the port (a new chassis for instance). So like i said ~20K will get you a RHD fresh off the boat which could mean extensive work is needed, new bulkheads due to rust, engines that were good only for the RoRo, etc.
I have spent some time at defendersource.com ... Not trying to be difficult here but based on your numbers (3k+ 5-10k) I am low, at estimate of low 20's. Or take you number and add 10k in repairs... My point is that not every truck will need a new bulkhead, is rusted out, needs all new mechanical's etc. Also, why only RHD? plenty of other countries out there have defenders besides the UK or Japan (what other RHD countries are there?). If i were to go the import route I would have an independent inspection done and work with a reputable importer as you've mentioned. I do understand that buying any used car is going to have its potential issues let alone one that is 25 years old...