Repost: Diesel Is Making A Comeback

#1
I tried this in Fireside Chat, so now I'm asking in Mods.


Even a cursory search in Google for anything along the lines of "is diesel dead in 2018" or "how long will we have diesel engines" or something similar will show that despite the VW et al woes of the past few years diesel engines are being put into more vehicles than ever, especially here in North America. In Europe of course politicians and social justice pundits get points for shouting about legislating diesel passenger vehicles out of existence by 2020 or 2030 or whenever; even in Mexico City they're supposedly going to become illegal, and supposedly in India, too, as a way of combating the huge pollution problems in those places. Mind you, in Mexico this is only being proposed for Mexico City and certainly not for the country of Mex as a whole. Diesel is still king of trucks in the markets of Australia and Central/South America, and clearly it never really lost steam in the truck segment here in North America. And quite obviously no one in the third world markets of Asia or Africa ever had any such notion about gaining political points by suggesting the outlawing of diesel.

This apparent reversal of the recent anti-diesel passenger vehicle trend started me thinking: if Europe does indeed ban diesel passenger vehicles in the future will it really affect the overlanding community there? It seems to me that 4x4 enthusiasts generally buy diesel trucks (or perform diesel engine conversions) for the purposes of torque and fuel economy and not so much for daily commuting; further, one doesn't find off-pavement fun in an urban environment, so how many "real" 4x4 trucks are being garaged in urban centers as grocery getters anyway?

Basically, if European cities were indeed to outlaw diesel vehicles within city limits then would European 4x4 enthusiasts really be affected? I'm theorizing that European diesel truck purchases (probably of the increasingly vintage mechanical variety, I guess) and diesel engine conversions would still be a staple of the 4x4 community there.
 
#2
Hi!
I am writing you from Italy.
The ban from entering some cities that has been introduced late last year in Northern Italy on older diesel engine (up to Euro 3), which my Defender 110 Td5 happens to be, , is indeed creating a concern for both mobility and value of the vehicles.
Still no visible effects, but there are folks who are considering installing a conversion to GPL or Methane gas.
Ciao!
 

Saint Nick

Active member
#3
Living in the UK means that we hear about this all of the time. Diesel was always cheaper than petrol here and some years ago the government wanted to push everyone to diesel. Many people made the change, company fleets all went to petrol, then suddenly diesel became more expensive than petrol and is now the devil incarnate of the western world!

There is no way in the world that diesel engines are going to disappear in this century, just do some research into viable fuel alternatives. Life is way too short to worry about what may happen in the next ten, twenty, thirty years. Stop listening to the bovine excrement that comes from the politicians, the tree huggers, the snowflakes and all the do-gooders in this world, about how bad diesel is. Keep your diesel, or buy a diesel then go and use/abuse to your heart's content. (y)

Nick
 
#4
Diesel calibration engineer here.

Diesel pass-car and LD is definitely going to be feeling the pinch in the coming years. The NOx emissions are getting tighter and tighter and it is unfortunately a chemistry and temperature management problem. With EV and other advancements in petrol and hybrid systems coming online there is only so long manufacturers are going to keep investing in diesel technology. The legislation is passable but the technology to pass makes the development less and less attractive, both to the OEM and to the consumer.

For many people who want to travel the world, they look for older vehicles that are Urea free due to the ULS requirements for the DPF and SCR coatings. These vehicles are considerably dirtier than modern diesels already. These are going to be restricted in many cities coming up but as most of us are not using out adventure rigs as out daily transport at home but rather as either a trip of a lifetime or a few times a year this will have minimal impact on the usage case 'we' have. If I can't enter Rome in my truck... I'll park outside the city and ride the public transport in... Same with London. Or...etc.
 
#5
With EV and other advancements in petrol and hybrid systems coming online there is only so long manufacturers are going to keep investing in diesel technology.
I agree that the alternatives are gradually coming on line, and I'm all for that but how long is this going to take to negate the need for having diesel powered vehicles? Even with the advances in electric vehicles, the charging infrastructure hasn't even got off the ground - but that's another can of worms :unsure:

I'll park outside the city and ride the public transport in... Same with London.
I'm, all for that (y)Then again, and speaking for the UK, most public transport vehicles are powered by …………… diesel engines! o_O

Ah well, such is life. I'll just enjoy mine whilst I can :)

Nick
 

Jnich77

Expedition Leader
#6
Lol... the entire fleet where I work is changing from diesel to gas. With the advancement in gas motors, diesels are making less and less sense. In fact, we did a cost to benefit analysis and under no circumstances did diesel motors make sense.

Now that Ford is releasing the 7.3 "Godzilla " I see even fewer reason to buy a diesel in the future.
 
#7
Now that Ford is releasing the 7.3 "Godzilla " I see even fewer reason to buy a diesel in the future.
The 'Godzilla' looks a mighty motor :devilish:, but from a recent Ford press release -"The new 7.3-liter will be considered an upgrade from the base 6.2-liter gas engine, but won’t be the premium powerplant option, which is still the 6.7-liter PowerStroke diesel engine." Interesting stuff!

Nick.
 

Jnich77

Expedition Leader
#8
The 'Godzilla' looks a mighty motor :devilish:, but from a recent Ford press release -"The new 7.3-liter will be considered an upgrade from the base 6.2-liter gas engine, but won’t be the premium powerplant option, which is still the 6.7-liter PowerStroke diesel engine." Interesting stuff!

Nick.
The 7.3 will cost less to buy, cost less to insure, cost less to maintain, cost less to repair, cost less to fuel, and come with a higher payload rating... today's diesel is nothing more than bragging rights amongst those who think that making an expensive truck payment enlarges their genitelia.

The diesel may be the "premium" option... but it also comes with a premium price tag...lol.
 
Last edited:
#11
Diesel for long haul is not going to go away anytime soon, diesel commuters are doomed to be replaced by PEV though.

NOx is only terrible in cities w/smog issues and high population concentrations tbh, outside those cities with low population density emitting NOx is better than emitting CO2.. NOx will break down into fertilizer in the order of days/weeks without ever reaching dangerous concentrations, CO2 will remain free in the atmosphere for many decades.

I had a Golf TDI that was purely a recreational vehicle, I never commuted with it.. every mile was traversing vast parts of the US.. I towed 1500# of trailer @ 80mph with a crew of 3 and averaged 36mpg, when I gave it back to VW my only viable option to replace it was a SUV or Truck.. and now I cannot transport the same cargo the same distance at lesser speeds without burning far more fuel, even though I got another Diesel.. so its those edge cases that will keep diesel around, especially in north america.

Eventually to keep meeting ever tightening emissions standards they are going to start putting particulate filters and hamstring gasoline/petrol engines with expensive and failure prone equipment the same way they did Diesel, this could spark a resurgence in Diesel power as PEV takes over the ICE.. I would not be surprised if in the end of all this its Gas/Petrol cars that are entirely phased out first, while Diesel sticks around for decades covering the gaps that EV tech struggles to make sense in.
 

Regcabguy

Expedition Leader
#14
Lol... the entire fleet where I work is changing from diesel to gas. With the advancement in gas motors, diesels are making less and less sense. In fact, we did a cost to benefit analysis and under no circumstances did diesel motors make sense.

Now that Ford is releasing the 7.3 "Godzilla " I see even fewer reason to buy a diesel in the future.
The UPS guy told me no more diesels after they die a natural death. The emissions on newer trucks just don't like stop and go.
 
Top