So is a '9000' class winch 'enough' for a 6500# Suburban

rayra

Expedition Leader
True, they're all about 25# for the carrier and ballpark $50. 12k winch setup is about 85#. Save about 11# with 100' of synthetic vs the 65' of steel that comes with the winch.
Save a few pounds with a plate fairlead instead of rollers. Still about 100# for the whole setup. I've moved enough ReadiMix to know what a pain in the back it will be to move around.
Probably will be the death knell for my high-mileage torsion bars, too.
 

MOguy

Explorer
Is there a rule of thumb for winch capacity, besides 'more is better'?

Might go 9000/9500, might go 12000/12500. Trying to gather some real-world experience info re the two classes. The winch would be an accessory on a vehicle that wont intentionally be driven places it might get majorly stuck. It's more likely to be used in getting other people unstuck. Or in some disaster scenario, rather than in a lot of hard wheelin' use or frequently. I also get 'duty cycle', and don't mind things taking a little longer. I've got more time than money, anyway.

Anyone that's read my topics should already know I'm a cheap bastard and I've already got too many hobbies. Running around getting stuck and unstuck or breaking my vehicle is not (deliberately) one of them. So no 'buy once, cry once' advice need apply. Sorry, Warn guys.

eta
I've got plenty of offroad experience with mini-trucks and my 4800# pickup, using recovery and snatch straps, shackles, gloves, throwing a blanket or jackets on the midpoint. And frame-mounted hooks, with #8 bolts. I'm 55, been offroading and getting stuff stuck and unstuck since my teens. And I'm pretty handy mechanically and with physics. I get the physical forces at work. Just never owned a winch or had much time working with one. So not really sure of how hard a lighter duty winch can be used / abused in extremis.
If it were me, I would not have a winch that small on a vehicle that big

That is a big vehicle. I have a Warn 9500lb winch on my Jeep and bracing myself to a tree I was able to winch a friend his 3/4 ton super duty with ease, he just had a tire hanging in a hole. I have had my Jeep stuck in mud (my Jeep weigh less than 4K) were my winch got a real work out.

It isn't just the weight of the vehicle it also matter how stuck you are.

Others mentioned using a hitch mount. I wouldn't. We do have a larger truck at work were we have a hitch style mount. It uses two class IV mounting points where the winch mount slides into.
 
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rayra

Expedition Leader
well weak point that it might be, the carrier / hitch mount is a GO, for various stated reasons. Don't want a permanent mount, I'm in Los Angeles where car theft and vandalism is a sport. And the plan for a carrier-mounted winch has been set for years, back when I first started running 1/0 cabling to my rear cargo area. That was laid down to provide power for a rear-mounted winch. Everything else I've done with inverters, solar attachment, etc was all made possible by the rear winch plan.
And likewise the intent to go forward with a 12k-class winch. The price difference is minimal and would rather have the heavier class working lighter, than vice-versa.
And with the switch from 65' of steel cable to 100' of dyneema, with a snatch block I may be able to run out and back to the vehicle and get a stronger pull from the get go.
 

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MOguy

Explorer
well weak point that it might be, the carrier / hitch mount is a GO, for various stated reasons. Don't want a permanent mount, I'm in Los Angeles where car theft and vandalism is a sport. And the plan for a carrier-mounted winch has been set for years, back when I first started running 1/0 cabling to my rear cargo area. That was laid down to provide power for a rear-mounted winch. Everything else I've done with inverters, solar attachment, etc was all made possible by the rear winch plan.
And likewise the intent to go forward with a 12k-class winch. The price difference is minimal and would rather have the heavier class working lighter, than vice-versa.
And with the switch from 65' of steel cable to 100' of dyneema, with a snatch block I may be able to run out and back to the vehicle and get a stronger pull from the get go.
A winch is heavy, when you get stuck you will be in less than Ideal conditions. It may be difficult, dangerous and or not even possible to mount it when you get stuck. My advice is mount you winch before you go. If you keep it in your vehicle secure it so if you are in an accident it wont go flying. If it does go flying around inside your vehicle something that heavy WILL KILL you and or/your occupants.

I would NEVER consider a single slide in mount for a vehicle that size.

It is your vehicle, not mine.

You can do what you want, you don't have to listen to anyone.
 
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rayra

Expedition Leader
It's not that I'm not listening, I'm just evaluating the use-case and options and risks differently from much of the lore. I'm not willingly seeking to drive places where'd I'd get so stuck that the max use and stresses come into play. My desire for a winch is for a vanishingly small possibility of need. I'm not looking to go bogging or grinding on anything.

And yes, it will be in the front receiver before I head off-road. Have had ZERO intention of the rig being loose in the back of my vehicle. Don't want that hard 100# of steel loose in the back of my SUV, or have to engineer a mounted receiver in the cargo area of the vehicle to mount the dismounted winch setup.
I just don't want the winch mounted on the vehicle every day / mile, for the 99% of mileage I spend ON-pavement.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
well I've got a 15k-rated carrier, with a fairlead plate. Got my 100' of dyneema. And a CURT front hitch on the way. Got the electrical bits for plugs fore and aft, but will have ot fabricate some brackets for those. I'll be getting a 12k-class winch, that's the last part left to get.

And I've got some black oxide button-head / allen-drive bolts coming to replace the standard hex-head hardware -

 

MOguy

Explorer
well I've got a 15k-rated carrier, with a fairlead plate. Got my 100' of dyneema. And a CURT front hitch on the way. Got the electrical bits for plugs fore and aft, but will have ot fabricate some brackets for those. I'll be getting a 12k-class winch, that's the last part left to get.

And I've got some black oxide button-head / allen-drive bolts coming to replace the standard hex-head hardware -

What is your hitch receiver rated at?

I've never seen anybody damage a hitch receiver winching. However, I've never seen anybody use a winch attached to a hitch. I have seen trucks with damaged hitched and frames from towing too much. Winching puts far more stress on it attachment point than towing does.

The frame and hitch damage I have seen from towing and never something that happens during a single incident, other than some dumb ass trying to tow an actual mobile home with a half ton truck. What I have seen it is when we are changing out a hitch or a bumper ( or scraping a truck) and we get up underneath the truck and notice the frame is twisted or bent, or the hitches is.

I would not be concerned about the Cradle itself. My concern is the point with a cradle slides into the hitch and where the receiver part attaches to the frame.
 
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rayra

Expedition Leader
Insufficient rating. Typical Class III 5000#/500#
The Curt front is that, but specifically mentions 9000# straight pull.
Probably why I ought to buy a 9000 class v a 12000. doesn't do me much good to have the higher rating winch if I just tear the hitches off. Then again, get less than 9000# pulling force on the outer wraps of the 12k anyway. And if I REALLY have to have it, my 'full disaster' scenario, I really don't care much about bending things. This whole 'solution' is for easing me and mine across a slip-fault movement of the San Andreas, ~9mi north of my house, after 'the big one' as we Escape from L.A.. I'm not otherwise planning any sort of routine winch use.
I'm far more likely to use this whole setup for setting pole-barn poles via use of a tripod, than winching my Suburban out of a stuck. Or pulling puny earthling vehicles loose, with my vehicle as the rescuer.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
CURT front hitch installed and carrier mounted. real tight / too tight fit to the bumper. But it's working. I'll wait until I have the winch itself mounted in the carrier before I make any changed for bumper clearance. Rest of the details in my build topic

 
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zimm

Expedition Leader
i used an 8000 pound warn, on a 7800 pound landcruiser and winched the **** out it for yeeeeaaars.

Why? A few considerations.

Size/speed ratio. For many products, one unit covers a range of uses. In this case the 8000 was a 9500 with a different faster gearset, so I knew ahead it was sized for larger loads. I did not want the next step up body, which went into the low teens, hanging of the front of thruck. it was much heavier.

Most "stuck" situations do not require a gazillion pounds of force, and speed is desired, so id's rather have the faster line speed in that model range, knowing if i was truly in a jam, i could just double line it and get the 2x truck weight I needed.

I suppose the key is experience. I get stuck often, so I know when the rigging will be overloaded. It's like my golf game. I'm a wizard with wedge because unfortunately, I spent a lot of time at the beach.

Quality. Yes, shitty winches work and are better than no winch in a pinch. the issue is, shitty winches ofter encourage getting in a pinch, then dont work when you need it. I veiw a winch as critical backup, not a luxury, and if something is critical you spend the extra 100% to get the extra the 30% reliability. I want a 100% duty rating or as close to it as available, at the advertised rated load. Like tell my customers shopping emergency power gear, it is what it is, I dont do critial cheap, but I'll point to players that do if you want that.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
Been driving off-road in the desert southwest for 36yrs, several years in the beginning in 'one-leggers'. Learned all about speed, momentum, throttle modulation, flotation / traction and getting stuck and unstuck. Chains, ropes, snatch straps, lots of shoveling and various traction devices, being rescued and being the rescuer. By the time I could afford a winch I was driving 4wd vehicles and didn't really have need. I'd learned how NOT to get stuck ;)
So not much experience with winching itself. Hence the winching questions.

"I want a 100% duty rating" heh where does one find this unicorn? even the almighty Warn will only state "Overloading/Overheating WARNING Always be aware of possible hot surfaces at winch motor, drum or rope during or after winch use. This winch is rated for intermittent duty. When the motor approaches stall speed, very rapid heat buildup occurs which may cause motor damage. "
I can't find anything about their actual rated duty cycle. Most say 'intermittent' and the user base all says 'stop winching when they get hot'.
I'm trying to find objective info and there isn't much out there. And I learned long ago that lore is mostly B.S. And so are most brand / team loyalty -based positions.
And when I try and find a wealth of user reviews they all seem to have about the same distribution.

when it comes down to it, the price differential in the product line I'm willing to accept, that seems a decent value proposition to me, is so small that I'm going with the 12k rather than the 9500. The Suburban isn't going to care abotu an additional 4-lbs, I'm not going to care about the additional $40 and I've already bought the 100' dyneema and hawse plate that combined are going to save me about 25-lbs in weight. Which is about what the carrier weighs.

And I'm even now finishing all the bumper plugs and cabling and controls to power any winch sold in these classes. From alternator clear thru to bumper plugs, at least a 200A continuous service. I'm working on the front grill plug bracket this week, as well as re-arranging my 1/0 cabling to my Aux battery and addign a Blue Sea rotary cutoff for the front plug. Should have the 1/0 welding cable to make the front adn rear plug extensions and do the installs some time in April. Should have the 12k winch and be ready for use by June.
 

NatersXJ6

Explorer
100% duty rating comes with hydraulics. Mile marker used to make a power steering pump driven winch. They were slow but mega workhorses. Haven’t heard from or about them lately, but I would consider one if I found it.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
I've gone with the 12,000# Badlands. Bought it today, should have the install finished by this weekend. Already in the carrier and swapped the supplied steel for the synthetic. Will properly spool it under tension later. Pics and progress in my build topic. Just wanted to follow-up on it in this topic.

 
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