Sprinter Van with Toyota 3RZ: The "Sprint-Yota"!

[Shadman]

Sprinters with ESP use the abs/esp module for front rear brake bias countil. Without it rear lockup with light loads, or poor braking performace would result. Of course the airbags and seat belt tension systems may require the factory ECM... The same goes for the asr traction control.
The ncv3 vans use a variable displacement AC compressor, no switches, just sensors and fully electronic control to prevent freeze up.

Ncv3 have a interlock on the steering controlled by the immobilizer. The starter motor is not controlled by the ignition switch, but is driven by the ecm on a start request. Etc....

This is the kind of guy I need to hire as a consultant!

 

[Shadman]

The best hobby is the one that makes you happy. If you want to do what they say can't be done, go for it, Bandit.

Wise words, thanks!

I find that failure is the singularity of imagination and reality leaning towards reality. But very often this point yields success.

 

[Shadman]

I'd look at what is/isn't possible in California for reasons why this isn't working/being done more.

If I complied with Cali rules I'd already be in jail for the battery terminal oxidation flakes I tossed on the ground. J/K

Here in Oregon 1975 is our cutoff for emissions (cat converter date). I could see a future trend where people take a pre-1975 frame and build on that. Like 1975 truck frame with a modern body and powerplant.

In Arizona, where I winter now, there are no emissions requirements in outlying areas. Surprisingly there isn't a state safety inspection either. So outside of Phoenix and Tucson it is basically the wild west. Understandable as only 2 of Arizona's 7 million residents live outside of Phoenix and Tucson. This is the only reason I am even considering a motor swap in a 2007 vehicle. However, I am certain that whatever goes in it will have full emissions compliance in keeping with the OEM vehicle the powerplant and trans came from. I do actually care about the environment, greatly.

 

[Shadman]

AZ emissions map: http://gisweb.azdeq.gov/arcgis/veiareas/

 

[vintageracer]

wrong post

 

[Pinnacle Campers]

Thanks for the info. I'm not so sure about V6 for space, exhaust, and ease of installation. In a wierd way I'm not trying to recreate the wheel, like building a Sienna minivan under a sprinter. I'm looking at a bit more out of the box options, but I will keep this motor in mind as I go forward.

Not sure about the v6 for space? It's what was in the van you are replacing, same 3.0 displacement even.
Have you measured the length of your I4? You might find that since it's one cylinder longer than a v6 that it won't fit.

You should call Advance Adapters and see if they are willing to make you an adapter with the Sprinter trans bolt pattern

 

[Shadman]

I have all the components lined up now...

2006 156 Wheelbase Sprinter: Rear Tommy lift removed (for sale, make an offer, https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...for-2006-sprinter-van-1250-in-phoenix.196590/ ). Removed all unnecessary cables, hoses, panels, and medical equipment from the passenger compartment. Only 1/4 inch diamond plate aluminum flooring, boxed wheel wells, and 3 rows of wall mounted E-trak remain inside.

1996 3RZ 5 speed T100 donor: 310,000 miles, but in perfect working order. All emissions equipment functioning as intended. Drove from Texas to Arizona last Monday at 75 MPH with 3 tables, 2 tv's, 3 barstools, and 2 motorcycles in the 8 foot bed. Roughly 1000 pound payload. Logged 21.3 MPG average for the whole 1049 mile trip.

Step 1: Remove everything unnecessary from the Sprinter: Engine, transmission, driveshaft, radiator, etc... Starting tonight!!!

 

[Shadman]

Not sure about the v6 for space? It's what was in the van you are replacing, same 3.0 displacement even.
Have you measured the length of your I4? You might find that since it's one cylinder longer than a v6 that it won't fit.

You should call Advance Adapters and see if they are willing to make you an adapter with the Sprinter trans bolt pattern

Thanks for the contact. I am avoiding engine to trans adapter method in the hopes the entire drivetrain (motor, trans, a/c compressor, front half of driveshaft, alternator, etc...) can be converted over 100% Toyota. Power / torque with factory transmission set points seems like a nice baseline. My first is the I4 with a 5 speed simply to avoid complications, although I will have to fabricate a clutch pedal mount and chop the floor for a shift. But, the first one will be mine to keep and I love the 4 cylinder idea. Even if it's a flawed idea. No biggie, I have 3 no op sprinters to play with right now.

Yes, on measuring motors, after comparing V6 and I4 motors side by side you probably are right. The general idea is to do 3 or 4 of these sprinters and see what works, what doesn't, what performs best, easiest swap, most economical... Then consider if it could be morphed into turn key engine swap business. Steps: Buy non op van. Buy 4runner. Tow van with 4 runner. Splice to build a "sprint-ota". Sell 4runner chassis and sprinter drivelines parts to recoup some investment. ~$8 to 10k turn key deal for a client who provides van and 4runner. Lifetime Toyota powertrain reliability, $19.99 oil changes. Etc, etc....

 

[luthj]

How are you working around the Christmas tree you will have on the cluster due to missing modules? The abs and stability control probably won't work. Also the brake force assist biasing. Assuming you leave the cluster and right sensors the AC should work. Without coolant temp values over CANbus the condenser fan will run all the time.

 

[Shadman]

I've discovered, as another contributor to this thread noted earlier, there is a large movement of 20R, 22R, and 22RE trucks being converted over to 3RZ power. Dyno shows the 22 R-E at 60 RWHP with big tires, and the 3RZ at 100. Torque is 132 ft lbs. So chuck the 22 RE out the window, a 3RZ is marginal at best. For comparison, the 2006 sprinter had 156 HP and 240 ft lbs. This thing is going to be slow as molasses.

A cool thread on 22 R to 3RZ conversions. These guys seem to know exactly what is up with the 3RZ.

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=19275.0

 

[Shadman]

How are you working around the Christmas tree you will have on the cluster due to missing modules? The abs and stability control probably won't work. Also the brake force assist biasing. Assuming you leave the cluster and right sensors the AC should work. Without coolant temp values over CANbus the condenser fan will run all the time.

All I can hope for is to work through one problem at a time. For my personal vehicle I can live with no abs or stability. My general plan is to leave all Sprinter electronics in place. And deconstruct the Toyota wiring harness to retain it complete for engine operation qnd emissions compiance only.

Going against what I said before...ideal would be to use the MB a/c compressor on a custom mount. Use all MB sensors. Including coolant temp.

I'm guessing the canbus coms are used for transmission output (road) speed,engine speed and load, and weight bias are factored in for ABS and stability. So a Toyota cable drive to MB canbus sensor for the trans output (road) speed is needed. And a crank speed to MB canbus adaptation. And throttle position. Will Benz system cope with 6,800 rpm? Can I tap the MB system for a relay to kill fuel delivery? All things I am eagerly looking to tackle. These obstacles are what makes a project like this fun for me.

First go around, focus will be on mechanical adaptation and just let the benz systems function as they would with a sprinter engine stalled and no input from trans. ABS should still function, as by law, it must work with a stalled motor.

Am I way oversimplifying?

 

[luthj]

Nothing you are.suggesting is impossible with the T1N, you will need some.wizardry to work around the missing ECM/tcm. The starter is ecm controlled, and you will need to bypass the key transponder. You could wire the ignition starter contact to the starter relay directly.

 

[Shadman]

Good idea Luthj! And thanks for the positive reinforcement. Much appreciated. T1N, is that the correct name? Filed away!!!

This afternoon I did some measuring and found the *INLINE 5* diesel (not v6...10/05 manufacture date means its Gen 1, 156", not 170" high roof) and the Toyota 3RZ are in many ways dimensionally similar. On the Yota, 24 inches from firewall to forward-most accessory pulley tip, 33 inches from firewall to radiator front, and 31 inches from lowest point on the oil pan to the top of EFI plenum. On the T1N, 25, 34, and 31 inches respectively, so the Yota motor is just slightly smaller (-1, -1, and 0). Great news!

So, before tearing the Sprinter apart, I wanted to see how bad the engine condition was. Previous owner had a small fleet and was told by a mechanic to abandon, not repair, the non-running Sprinter. Well, a bit of diesel on a rag and a spray bottle and diagnosing one issue and she was, ugh, poorly purring. The culprit for no-start? 4 out of 5 glow plug caps were not installed. This makes me think a compression test was done with a failing grade. Oh well. I was able to verify a few things with it running and that helps me out, long run. And lets me know my engine core is good for rebuild. And my A/C is charged. And the heat works. And the starter engages. And there are no check engine or warning lights, as is. Tomorrow, tear down begins in earnest.

This really is fun!!!

 

[Shadman]

A few bad pics of the project as it sits...

 

[luthj]

The five cylinder engines used in the early sprinters are pretty robust and can be rebuilt on the bench. Assuming it has even decent compression it can probably be saved with a few spare parts.