Tell me about the "dark side"...

[MCObray]

Currently, I own a 1999 Jeep Cherokee with some minor modifications.

'99 Jeep XJ by Obray Optics, on Flickr

As of late, I have been getting what you would call irritated with the Jeep. Now, it's been a great vehicle for me and has not left me stranded, but a lot of characteristic of the XJ are starting to turn me off. First off, the build quality lacks, aside from the powerplant (4.0L Straight-Six engine, AW4 transmission, and NP231 Transfer Case). The person who will be riding along for these car-rides and adventures, does not even really like the XJ. The interior, as in the driver and passenger are a little too confined for her liking. I much value her opinion since I want her to enjoy the experiences we will share while out and about. I still love this Jeep, but feel as if there are better applications to better suite my needs.

These factors have begin to grow on me and has tempted me to see if the grass is greener on the other side; Toyota 4Runner.
My pros: I can cruise at 65MPH on the interstate and still obtain 18+MPG, while still having a comfortable ride. I get a frame and body. World class reliability. I can run 31s stock, and 32s with a 2" lift (OME). Interior space seems to be a little bit bigger than the XJ. Rear locker can be found in specific model of a 4Runner.
My cons: Unfamiliar with ins-and-outs. High mileage vehicle with my budget. High initial purchase price, as well as cost of ownership.

My budget will be 6K-8K, which seems to put me at around a 140K-180K 4Runner. Anyone ever own a XJ, and then purchase a 4Runner? Or vis-versa?

I do realize the higher purchase price, as well as the cost of ownership, will be higher because the quality of product Toyota makes exceeds most of their competitors. Also, should I be discourage against high mileage 4Runners? I know records and receipts will be the key to finding the right one.

I browsed through the 4Runner buyers guide (timing belt, water pump, ball joints, and "strawberry milkshake" transmission fluid was all read), as well as Ih8mud, on a Forum and a lot of good information was obtained in those posts. I know this thread will be biased due to it being posted on the Toyota side of the forum, but i'm just trying to gauge real life experiences from individuals who have owned a 4Runner, more specifically the 3rd Generation model.

Thanks guys.

-Mason

 

[p nut]

I bought a 98 4Runner, then bought a 98 ZJ, sold it after a year and bought another 4Runner. Quality of workmanship is night and day, IMO. You will not regret the switch, nor will your co-pilot. If I were hunting for a 3rd Gen today, I'd get a 99-00 Limited with a rear locker. If you want a 5-speed, I'd get a 99-00 Highlander (Sport Edition). At the price of $8k, you should aim for 100-150k miles with good records. Make sure 90k service has been done. Searching nationwide via autotrader or forums like this one or t4r may be a good option.

By the way, you can run 32's stock. 33's will need a lift and possible trimming.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

That is a clean looking jeep.

 

[tanglefoot]

We have a '98 (3rd gen) with the 3.4 and 5-speed manual in the family as well as my personal '85 (1st gen). They were both purchased used and have been very easy to own. (You mention cost-of-ownership being higher in a 4runner--it would most-likely be lower: lower cost of fuel and repairs).

The '98 was acquired with about 90,000 on the odometer and a fresh timing belt. It has not required any work whatsoever other than oil changes and tires in the ~8 years we've had it. It's been completely trouble-free. Even when it's been parked for a long time, it fires right up.

The '85 was acquired as a project so it required some initial work (engine rebuild) but very little since then. I've had it 14 years and have no plans to replace it.

I would personally look for a 3rd gen 4runner with a 2.7L and 5-speed manual. They're rare, but the 2.7 has a lifetime timing chain, quite a bit of power (about the same as the earlier 3.0 v6 but with less weight) and nice fuel economy (22+).

I don't think the 3rd gen is much wider than the XJ if at all...you may want to sit in one with your traveling partner and decide how you like the interior space. They are likely longer though, and offer more cargo space than the XJ.

 

[MCObray]

I bought a 98 4Runner, then bought a 98 ZJ, sold it after a year and bought another 4Runner. Quality of workmanship is night and day, IMO. You will not regret the switch, nor will your co-pilot. If I were hunting for a 3rd Gen today, I'd get a 99-00 Limited with a rear locker. If you want a 5-speed, I'd get a 99-00 Highlander (Sport Edition). At the price of $8k, you should aim for 100-150k miles with good records. Make sure 90k service has been done. Searching nationwide via autotrader or forums like this one or t4r may be a good option.

By the way, you can run 32's stock. 33's will need a lift and possible trimming.

That's what I have heard. I am currently reading up on these 4Runners more and more, and think i'll set my sights on starting to browse via Craigslist and other forums. Thanks for you information, it is much appreciated.

That is a clean looking jeep.

Thank you, I like to take care of my stuff.

We have a '98 (3rd gen) with the 3.4 and 5-speed manual in the family as well as my personal '85 (1st gen). They were both purchased used and have been very easy to own. (You mention cost-of-ownership being higher in a 4runner--it would most-likely be lower: lower cost of fuel and repairs).

The '98 was acquired with about 90,000 on the odometer and a fresh timing belt. It has not required any work whatsoever other than oil changes and tires in the ~8 years we've had it. It's been completely trouble-free. Even when it's been parked for a long time, it fires right up.

The '85 was acquired as a project so it required some initial work (engine rebuild) but very little since then. I've had it 14 years and have no plans to replace it.

I would personally look for a 3rd gen 4runner with a 2.7L and 5-speed manual. They're rare, but the 2.7 has a lifetime timing chain, quite a bit of power (about the same as the earlier 3.0 v6 but with less weight) and nice fuel economy (22+).

I don't think the 3rd gen is much wider than the XJ if at all...you may want to sit in one with your traveling partner and decide how you like the interior space. They are likely longer though, and offer more cargo space than the XJ.

Thanks for the correction, I just figured if a part were needing to be replaced, it's going to be more expensive due to having to come from the dealer. OEM quality though, can't beat that!

That's amazing, as far as reliability and build quality go. I know for a fact, the same cannot be said for the Jeep, but as I said earlier, it's been a great vehicle to me.

I appreciate you sharing your experiences with the 4Runner.

Something like this, has caught my eye... but I've never driven at 5 Speed, and it's priced a little high!
http://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/3459879834.html

BTW, does anybody know the battery size for the 3rd Gen 4Runner? I have a D34/78 DieHard Platinum in my Jeep, and if I can keep it, that would be great!

 

[xjaugie]

I did just what you arethinking of doing, about a year ago. I sold the XJ sitting 33's geared and locked front and back, and built a gen 1 tacoma x-cab. Since then I have driven the truck across the country and back, offroading along the way. You will not be disapointed at all for getting into a Toyota. Think of it this way, Jeeps are cool to look at, and wrench on, but for real travel use, go Toyota.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

I had a 2nd gen 4Runner with the V6, and factory 31's and rear swing out tire carrier.

Only problems it ever gave me was with the starter, at around 130K miles. Only mods I did, was add a winch up front, and some driving lights.

If it hadn't been rusting out (due to the salt/de-icer they use up here) I would have kept it.

I've owned 5 XJ's, 3 stock, 1 lightly modded, and one heavily modified (but still street legal) and they couldn't hold a candle to the Toy as far as overall craftsmanship and reliability.

I'm a Jeep nut, but that 4Runner was one of the best rigs I've ever owned.

As far as space, I'd say it's a wash between the two (at least with the 2nd gen) Not a lot of foot room in the Toy on the driver side. Not much foot room on the pass side on either of them.

I liked the seats and ride of the 4Runner over the XJ's.

I think you'll be happy switching over to a Toy.

HB

 

[MCObray]

I did just what you arethinking of doing, about a year ago. I sold the XJ sitting 33's geared and locked front and back, and built a gen 1 tacoma x-cab. Since then I have driven the truck across the country and back, offroading along the way. You will not be disapointed at all for getting into a Toyota. Think of it this way, Jeeps are cool to look at, and wrench on, but for real travel use, go Toyota.

Sounds like you and I share the same thought... you just acted on it and I think I am in the process. Thanks for speaking up!

 

[rickashay]

I have no experience with a Jeep of any sort, as I have been a Toyota enthusiast my whole life, but I can share with you some information about my current 98 4Runner build:

I bought it with 245,000KMS (~150K miles) for $6500 a couple years ago. It had decent maintenance history and appeared to be looked after. I also was worried about buying something with anything over 120K miles. In the 2 years I've had the truck it has seen a fairly large transformation in terms of offroad modifications but the reliability of these vehicle has far surpassed anything I could have imagined.

Post-purchase I did the T-belt, water pump, thermastat, spark plugs, wires, new air filter, fuel filter, new diff/transfer case fluids, transmission fluid (also added the B&M cooler to avoid the "pink milkshake"), new rad fluid, and a fresh oil change. Pretty much I bought it, and baselined the maintenance items to prepare it for long distance highway travel and multiple day expeditions into the wilderness. The truck ran flawlessly prior to these items and runs/operates flawlessly to this day. I have not had a single mechanical failure of any kind in the last 35,000KMS of use - several thousands of which have been backcountry.

I would go for the V6... The V6 is gutless once you start adding any kind of "accessories" and I imagine the 4CYL to be even worse. I get 17 MPG on average - lifted 3" on 33's, full heavy skid plates, roof rack, sleeping platform, winch, bumpers, stock 4.30 gears, auto tranny. I used to run a more "mild version of the build - lifted 2" on 32's, and it was even more economical.

I don't know why people always hate on the automatic transmission. I mean, I like having a 5spd too so that I "have more control over gearing" but the auto has been awesome and honestly has converted me for offroad purposes. With some "2 foot braking" you can lock the torque converter up, avoiding the jerky movements, and it can be way smoother than a 5spd. Plus these transmissions are readily available in the scrap yard if you ever grenade one, although they seem to be extremely reliable albeit for the "pink milkshake" issue concerning the radiator tranny cooler.

One word of advice, if you buy something with over 120K miles, replace the lower ball joints with ONLY OEM toyota parts. They are a common fail point above that mileage, especially in lifted applications. GL in your search and we look forward to seeing your "clean" build ideals from your Jeep, shown in Toyota form.

 

[Sam Huynh]

Although I own a pickup and its an older model I do have to say the build quality of these lil trucks are amazing. I own both a toyota and an XJ and much rather prefer to drive the yota. I actually bought my yota to replace the jeep but cant bare to get rid of the jeep. Since then my jeep has become a dedicated trail rig and the yota is my daily driver. I kind of have a love hate relationship with my jeep. Things constantly break on it, and I keep fixing it, but it has never left me stranded before. The drivetrain and engine are pretty solid it seems to be the small things that go wrong with it. As far as my yota, I love it. It could be a bit faster but Im rocking the 22R.

 

[BillyB]

The wife and I are on our 3rd 4Runner, a 2000 Limited. Found it on CL for $6k with 110k miles. It's her DD, but I sneak the keys out of her purse every now and then! This is our 8th Toyota ('78 HiLux 2WD, '79 SB 4WD, '90 Celica, '90 4Runner, '95 4Runner, '97 Tacoma LB 4WD and my DD, a '10 Tundra CM) with no regrets. Tried a Blazer ZR2 for a year and was sadly disappointed in build quality. No experience with Jeep.

To make a long story short, it's hard to go wrong with a 4Runner purchase!

 

[MCObray]

I have no experience with a Jeep of any sort, as I have been a Toyota enthusiast my whole life, but I can share with you some information about my current 98 4Runner build:

I bought it with 245,000KMS (~150K miles) for $6500 a couple years ago. It had decent maintenance history and appeared to be looked after. I also was worried about buying something with anything over 120K miles. In the 2 years I've had the truck it has seen a fairly large transformation in terms of offroad modifications but the reliability of these vehicle has far surpassed anything I could have imagined.

Post-purchase I did the T-belt, water pump, thermastat, spark plugs, wires, new air filter, fuel filter, new diff/transfer case fluids, transmission fluid (also added the B&M cooler to avoid the "pink milkshake"), new rad fluid, and a fresh oil change. Pretty much I bought it, and baselined the maintenance items to prepare it for long distance highway travel and multiple day expeditions into the wilderness. The truck ran flawlessly prior to these items and runs/operates flawlessly to this day. I have not had a single mechanical failure of any kind in the last 35,000KMS of use - several thousands of which have been backcountry.

I would go for the V6... The V6 is gutless once you start adding any kind of "accessories" and I imagine the 4CYL to be even worse. I get 17 MPG on average - lifted 3" on 33's, full heavy skid plates, roof rack, sleeping platform, winch, bumpers, stock 4.30 gears, auto tranny. I used to run a more "mild version of the build - lifted 2" on 32's, and it was even more economical.

I don't know why people always hate on the automatic transmission. I mean, I like having a 5spd too so that I "have more control over gearing" but the auto has been awesome and honestly has converted me for offroad purposes. With some "2 foot braking" you can lock the torque converter up, avoiding the jerky movements, and it can be way smoother than a 5spd. Plus these transmissions are readily available in the scrap yard if you ever grenade one, although they seem to be extremely reliable albeit for the "pink milkshake" issue concerning the radiator tranny cooler.

One word of advice, if you buy something with over 120K miles, replace the lower ball joints with ONLY OEM toyota parts. They are a common fail point above that mileage, especially in lifted applications. GL in your search and we look forward to seeing your "clean" build ideals from your Jeep, shown in Toyota form.

Nice, what you did is an awesome approach to get everything back to bare-bones and know where it stands. If I purchased a 4Runner, I would more than likely do the same if it had not been done recently. You post is very encouraging and just pushes me that much more towards a 4Runner. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences... it really helps. One question for you though, what size is the 3rd Gen 4Runner's battery?

Thanks again man!

 

[NCjeff]

The "Darkside"??? I thought you were talking about going from Toyota to Jeep with the title. Come into the light sir.

I too have no Jeep experience, however I have never gotten bored of any of the many Toyotas I have owned. The only reason I have owned many Toyotas is because I love them all and wish I could have 1 of every Land Cruiser, Taco, and 4runner. I also have never gotten let down / left stranded by any of them. IMO the 3rd gen 4runner has the best of all worlds - 3.4, E-locker, doesn't ride like a truck, OK gas mileage, you can sleep in the back, etc, etc,.
I would keep my eyes all over Craigslist and do not be scared about 150+K miles, especially if its been maintained. I would try to stay away from a dealers, as I think they price them way too high. I just got a 99 4runner off CL, auto, e-locker, Limited for $5500. Needed timing belt, water pump, and brakes done, so another $1200 and rides wonderful for a 13 year old vehicle. Find some other Toyota forums (TTORA, Yotatech, T4R.org) and look for threads with how many miles people have on their 3.4 engines. That will really make you want one.

Good luck.

 

[MCObray]

The wife and I are on our 3rd 4Runner, a 2000 Limited. Found it on CL for $6k with 110k miles. It's her DD, but I sneak the keys out of her purse every now and then! This is our 8th Toyota ('78 HiLux 2WD, '79 SB 4WD, '90 Celica, '90 4Runner, '95 4Runner, '97 Tacoma LB 4WD and my DD, a '10 Tundra CM) with no regrets. Tried a Blazer ZR2 for a year and was sadly disappointed in build quality. No experience with Jeep.

To make a long story short, it's hard to go wrong with a 4Runner purchase!

I wish I could find a deal like that! Yeah that seems to be the general consensus and I am about near on the board with Toyota.

The "Darkside"??? I thought you were talking about going from Toyota to Jeep with the title. Come into the light sir.

I too have no Jeep experience, however I have never gotten bored of any of the many Toyotas I have owned. The only reason I have owned many Toyotas is because I love them all and wish I could have 1 of every Land Cruiser, Taco, and 4runner. I also have never gotten let down / left stranded by any of them. IMO the 3rd gen 4runner has the best of all worlds - 3.4, E-locker, doesn't ride like a truck, OK gas mileage, you can sleep in the back, etc, etc,.
I would keep my eyes all over Craigslist and do not be scared about 150+K miles, especially if its been maintained. I would try to stay away from a dealers, as I think they price them way too high. I just got a 99 4runner off CL, auto, e-locker, Limited for $5500. Needed timing belt, water pump, and brakes done, so another $1200 and rides wonderful for a 13 year old vehicle. Find some other Toyota forums (TTORA, Yotatech, T4R.org) and look for threads with how many miles people have on their 3.4 engines. That will really make you want one.

Good luck.

Eh, I thought the title would attraction some attention and surely it did! Jeep to Toyota, is the switch I would be making.

Yeah my eyes are open and I am on CL, Ebay, ExPo, Ih8mud classified to see what there is out. In my market, it seems as if the 4Runners are marked up quite a bit, but I know if I stay persistent something is bound to come up! I think I am leaning towards an auto, but the thought of a manual is surely enticing. If I could find one with an e-locker, that would be the icing on the cake. After hearing all these wonderful experience, yet I still have been exposed to some of the common problems. I think without a doubt, the 4Runner fits the bill on what I want out of a vehicle. Next, find one!

 

[slomatt]

I had a 96 ZJ for about 6 years before my 4Runner. The ZJ was running 33" tires and with some trimming, a small lift, and the V8 it was great on the trail. Otherwise the truck had a lot of negatives, bad gas mileage, spare tire located in the trunk, vague steering, unibody, etc. The biggest issue was the reliability. To be fair the truck had somewhere around 160k on it, but it seemed like something was breaking pretty much monthly by the end. I replaced the engine mounts, control arms, 3 power steering pumps, steering box, and a ton of other small parts. Something was always leaking or failing, and for the most part not because of offroad use. When the A/C pump seized ($1000 to replace) and then the transmission sender split and I woke up and found the ZJ sitting in a pool of "blood" (trans fluid) in the garage it was time for it to move on.

I was hesitant to buy an IFS truck, but my goal was to buy a reliable rig that could get close to 20mpg on the highway and nothing with a solid front axle in the US market fit. And realistically there's nothing "wrong" with IFS, I've driven an XTerra all over Moab and through the Rubicon and had no problems.

After doing some research I decided to buy a 99-00 4x4 4runner with the 3.4l motor. The 99-00 models have the newer interior, and I wanted the V6 because it gets almost the same mileage as the I4 but has much more torque, and it's not like the 4runner is a speed demon to start with. That said, the I4 has a timing chain so if you want a bulletproof engine I would strongly consider it. I also really wanted a 5 speed, and the moon roof, and the e-locker, and a grey interior because I hate tan. Oh, and the sport model would be nice since it comes with large brakes. So basically I was looking for one of the most rare combinations possible, and after two years I found one, though it did not have the elocker.

After owning the 4Runner for 3 years and wheeling it regularly there is no way I would go back to the ZJ. I miss the Jeep sometimes, and it was more exciting to drive on the trail, but the 4Runner is vastly better in every other aspect, reliability, comfort, interior space, drivability, etc. It has met or exceeded all of my expectations. Reliability has been great, the only problem I've had is that the bushing on the clutch spring wore out which is very common. There are a few other common problems that have been listed above, but for the most part as long as you deal with those these trucks are very reliable. Oh, and I should mention that the gas gauges are notoriously inaccurate. Front headroom is not great if you are more than 6' tall, especially with the sun roof. With a lift, rock protection, and 32" mud tires I still can get 19-20mpg on the freeway if I'm careful. Friends who have the stock front bumper, a lift, and 32" ATs are able to get 21-22 mpg.

I found my truck with 84k miles in 2009 for $8300, so deals are out there, it may just take some time to find them. Good luck!

Good resources:
http://www.ultimateyota.com/
http://www.t4r.org/
http://www.yotatech.com/

Possibilities if you are willing to travel:
1999 w/ 93k for $8500
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3467079203.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/3455330873.html

2000 w/ 126k for $8900
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ctd/3438406216.html

As you can tell 4Runners retain their value well.

- Matt