Toyota LC vs Mits Montero?

[OneTime]

Last year I bought a 92 Toyota FJ80. I had always dreamed of owning a LC. The truck is not a DD and it used as a do all "Adventure Rig" A little wheeling, a little expedition/camping and a lot of highway driving hualing my mountain bikes. I have learned to do a lot of my own PM from great web support on IH8mud.com.

I have also owned a 95 Montero. Recently I have considered going back to a Montero. But have many questions. Here are the pro I miss from the Montero. Better MPG. More High End HP. Better overall highway preformance Factory rear locker (My LC only has a center dif loc) Part time 4wd, A little more cargo room. Rear power outlet. ABS PRICE!!!!!! I could sell my LC and buy a Montero and load it with all kinds of toys, for the same price.

Cons Poor web and aftermarket support I cant find a good web site. 4x4wire.com is nothing compared to LC forums. I also dont know how long a Montero will last and what the pitfalls are. Also what year is the best? I like the GenII. Also not sure of cost of parts. I remember having to pay about $250.00 to replace my 95's headlight. Not so on my 92 LC

Can any Montero owners chime in?

I know the LC is probably a better offroad rig. But I dont spend that much time doing real wheeling. I am thinking of going with a Montero and making it a DD. What can I expect for MPG? I cant remember what my 95 got

 

[Martinjmpr]

I don't know if this is helpful, but I had a 1st gen (1990) 4-door Monty and it was the longest running used vehicle I've ever owned. I bought it in May of 1992 with 18,000 miles and sold it in July of 1999 with 147,000. I did have to have the top end reubuilt because of the well known problems with the valve guides on those 3.0l V6 engines, but that was the only major work I had done. As far as minor repairs, the only ones I had done were the turn signal switch stopped working at around 70k and cost about $150 to fix in the late 90's. It was dead reliable and never left me stranded. Mine had a manual transmission and no power windows or doors so there was less "stuff" to break.

I have always been impressed with the Monteros and I think in many ways they get a raw deal in the US. Here they are thought of as oddballs or strictly as "mall cruisers." However, if you get out to the 3rd world, where 4wd vehicles really earn their keep, there are 3 SUVs you see more than any other: Toyota LC, Nissan Patrol (not available in the US) and the Mitsubishi Pajero (which we call the Montero.)

Personally, I'm not crazy about the new, IRS Monteros, but the 92-98 (or so) Montero/Pajero is an amazingly capable off road vehicle that still has good on-road manners and certainly better gas mileage than the abysmal LC. MPG won't be spectacular but you can probably expect 15-17 in the city and 18-20 on the highway, depending on what tires you have and how you drive. That's about 60% better than what you can expect from an FJ80, from what I understand, which can rarely break 15mpg, even on the highway.

Sadly, I have noticed that Toyotas often command prices that are just ridiculous, simply because of the name. I have seen 1984 FJ60's with 200+k on the clock and banged up bodies sell for $3500 - $4000 in a heartbeat, while a 1994 or 95 Montero with 125k in decent shape can be found for under $2k if you shop around. Nothing against Toyota (see what I drive now in my sig!) but the blind worship of the LC has driven their prices into the "insane" range, and that goes for FJ80's, especially, which can command prices in excess of $15k even with over 150,000 miles on them!

I'd say if you can stomach the idea of either (a) not modifying the vehicle excessively, (b) sourcing your parts from Australia (where the Pajero is extremely popular) or (c) fabricating your own custom parts, then a Montero would be an awesome vehicle to own.

Here I am camping in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada in 1998:

4-wheeling at Hole-in-the-rock trail in Utah in 1999:

 

[tdesanto]

I have owned a '94 and currently own an '01 year model.

The genII trucks are great. Look for one with the rear locker, if you can find it. They aren't as common, but that was an option offered. The genII was made up through '99 and they continuously refined it. If I remember correctly, my '04 got about 16-18mpg...so maybe slightly better than the FJ80.

As you noted, after market support isn't as good, but there are more options I've seen for the genII trucks vs. the genIII model.

A good website with a lot of great folks and information: Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria

I only wish that all the goodies that the Aussies have access to for these rigs was available here.

 

[kcowyo]

OneTime - Welcome to ExPo -:beer:

You've presented a very fair and interesting comparison. I have not owned a Montero, but I did do a lot of research on them last winter when I was considering an 80 series for a DD and client hauler. I was very impressed with what I learned about Monteros compared to an 80 series Landcruiser.

My needs were a reliabile drive-train, a 3rd row seat, decent ground clearance, 4wd and price. I was pleasantly surprised to learn there was also a factory locker available in Monteros. For a DD, I thought the seating position and around-town drive-ability were quite good. The prices for a used Montero vs. a used 80 were much more manageable as well. Gas mileage figures I saw were pretty comparable to a stock 80 series, mid teens in town and on the highway.

I emailed a mod on a Mitsubishi website for a little bit of insider info. The following was his reply to my questions -

The advice I'll give you is pretty much based on what I've read, with a little experience thrown in, with a caveat, later...

95 Montero SR is the holy grail, in terms of power, performance, ground clearance etc. Has the available 3.5 engine, available factory rear locker, etc etc. Plus it has arguably the best (at the time) 4wd system available, a multi-mode system, that has allwheeldrive via a viscous coupling, plus 4hi and 4lo locked modes, so its good to go on all surfaces. Add in multichannel abs, comfortable interior, etc, and you've got a great machine, underrrated, but the best kept secret that the rest of the world knows, but North America hasn't caught on. Also a very stout trans, made by AisinWarner, whom I'm sure you're familiar with...

Now, the negatives:

-3.5 engine is "complicated" to work on, has a butterfly valve issue (fixable, check the archives or old posts in tech), and is not the most fuel effiecient. But lots of power, and stout except for as mentioned.

-Very little aftermarket.

Bear in mind that you posted two completely different models, the sleeker smaller one is the Montero Sport, which is a completely different animal from the Montero (Pajero in the rest of the world, and the one of Dakar fame). I am speaking of the latter, and have no experience with the Sport.

Now my caveat: the only genII I have ever owned (my current ride) is an imported from Japan model, with a diesel engine. The only gas engined Monteros I've had were the 3.0V6 and the 2.6-4banger. So my comments on the 3.5 are only what I've heard from others...

In terms of mileage - hmmmm... I've no doubts about the drivetrain, but the tranny and engine will go forever IF looked after, ie good maintenance. I woudn't be shy about a high miler, but I would want meticulous service records, and a very good pre-buy inspection...

Hope this helps a little...

I didn't get much further than that with my Montero education. My need for a vehicle with a third row was satiated when a Honda Pilot with a 3rd row came into my life. That suited my need for DD & client hauler with soft-road abilities. However I still believe that the Montero is a viable, if under-appreciated and unloved, DD and weekend warrior. Their world-wide reputation should give confidence to anyone in the looking stages.


*ExPo member preacherman has had a Montero for sale in Texas. I dunno if it's still available...?

 

[OneTime]

Does anyone know about valves on the Montero? I owned a 92 Eclispe and one day the timing belt went.....And that was it!!! DOHC Big bucks to fix. Also sounds like the Mits is harder to work on. But my skills only go as far a changing fluids and spark plugs. Could I expect to go over 200,000 miles in Montero with proper mantainance?

 

[Martinjmpr]

Does anyone know about valves on the Montero? I owned a 92 Eclispe and one day the timing belt went.....And that was it!!! DOHC Big bucks to fix. Also sounds like the Mits is harder to work on. But my skills only go as far a changing fluids and spark plugs. Could I expect to go over 200,000 miles in Montero with proper mantainance?

If my experience is any guide, I'd say yes to the last question. My Monty was still running strong at 147k when I sold it in 1999.

And I'll agree about the Gen IIs being the best. Mine was a Gen I and I could not keep up with the Gen IIs on the trail.

Not too long ago I was messing around on CL and found a Gen II Montero, I think it was a 96, with about 125k on it, for $1800. Considering that an equivalent FJ80 would run you near 10k, that's a huge difference.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Hey, you want to talk about long lasting? Check this out:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/car/559812449.html

Wow! An 1881 Montero! :Wow1:

I hear Wyatt Earp himself drove one of these bad boys on his way to the OK corral! :gunt:

 

[OneTime]

Funny I was just looking at that myself.

 

[RttH]

I'll chime in with a little input. I currently offroad/travel/and use as a daily driver a 2000 Montero (its considered a Gen. 2.5) looks like Gen. 2. I traded in a 1998 LR Discovery for the Montero and it only had 20,000 miles on it. I now have about 90,000 miles on it and I have never had a repair done to it, unlike the previous LR.

Pro's: unique, reliable, SOHC V-6 gets 16-18mpg city/22 highway. It has the ability to run in 4H all the time or the option to switch to 2H. Gas mileage doesn't change. Rear locker is an option, CD-lock standard. Solid rear axle.

Con's: aftermarket support (ARB in Australia is about it, and there great!) but limited otherwise. IFS has poor wheel travel. Not geared low enough if you go beyond 32" tires.

I live in Colorado and it does nicely in the snow and keeps up with my brothers' Rubicon. Montero's just never really caught on in the U.S. like they have in the rest of the world. I do drool over nicely equiped Land Cruisers and often think that if I ever jumped brand that is the direction I would go. Don't disregard the newer models of Montero...though they are all independent suspension, they have better ground clearance and the Super-Select 4wheel drive system is applauded internationally.

Good luck in your research!

 

[OneTime]

Roger, Thank you. You gave me some numbers to go with my past expierence. The 22 highway sure is hard to beat. My Land Cruiser sure looks cool. But not really tens miles less to the gallon cool. I'm still curious as to want the major problems are. With the cruiser its the Head Gasket. Do Montero have a hang up?

 

[AndrewP]

Really the only down side to the Land Cruiser is the fuel mileage. Everything else, like reliability, aftermarket support, clubs, runs, spare parts, mods etc, is pretty good in the Cruiser world. The Cruiser has achieved critical mass and the Montero has not.

I always liked the square 4 door Monteros (Gen 2 I guess) but it's a total orphan in the 4wd world. It had a good utilitarian look, and a rear locker. That's not a bad place to start. Add to that the IFS, though, and it's a non-starter, at least for me. The latest generation of Monteros have way too much plastic, and way too little wheel travel and room for larger tires.

 

[RttH]

Honestly...I can't think of any mechanical issues. I had an older '89 that cracked its head at around 120,000 miles, which was common then. If there were any recall issues the dealer took care of it and it was probably minor. I have a great relationship with the local Mitsu dealer (friend of the family). I don't consider the Montero the ultimate 4x4 because I have been in too many offroad situations to know that advantages of long wheel base vs short is dependent on terrain. The '95 model people talk about was considered the best due to ability to fit larger tires, and had a standard rear locker, but the DOHC was difficult to work on, and may have had some minor issues (I'm not sure). Here is a link to what can be done with a little extra cash. http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showf...pe=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post739948
Not sure if that link will go through.

 

[kcowyo]

Not sure if that link will go through.

It won't if they're not members. Joe changed "Off Topic" on 4x4Wire last year to a member's only area.

That's a nice Montero though -

 

[Martinjmpr]

Roger, Thank you. You gave me some numbers to go with my past expierence. The 22 highway sure is hard to beat. My Land Cruiser sure looks cool. But not really tens miles less to the gallon cool. I'm still curious as to want the major problems are. With the cruiser its the Head Gasket. Do Montero have a hang up?

The 1st Gens had some engine issues. On the 4 cyl (only available in the short wheelbase, 2 door version and also sold as the Dodge Raider) the head would warp and crack, neccessitating a replacement. On the 1st gen 3.0l V-6 the valve guides would drop down causing the engine to burn excessive oil (by the time I got mine fixed it was going through about a quart every 1,000 miles and leaving a nice blue trail behind it!) AFAIK this problem never recurred in the 3.4l or 3.5l (can't remember) that was put into the 2nd gen Montero. I'm not aware of any other issues involving the later Montys, but to be fair, I never owned one, either.

 

[preacherman]

I sent you a pm but I will chime in for everyone else. (tony and I might be the only few who have one here??)I have a 1994 SR Montero. The SR is the model with the bigger 3.5 DOHC, rear locker, 4wheel disk breaks, power everything, and leather seats (all 3 rows).
Here is what i like about it.
-I get 16.7 mpg avg in town and 18.3 on hwy. I have gotten as good as 20 on a trip but it was backroads and I kept it under 65.
-Recently I went out with my roof top tent and still got between 15-16mpg driving 75. Do that with an 80.
-The room inside is amazing. The back seat has lots of room and it has good cup holders, arm rests, and the back seat reclines, as well as is easy to move up or down for cargo.
-The cargo space is really big and has some cool features like a 12v plug (unheard of in 1994) as well as a 12v work light you can use anywhere around the car, and a small tool kit built into the door.
-It's given me no problems. I got mine with 163K and now have 197K, I just did my first "major" repair...I put new rotors and pads on it...thats is it so far.
-Factory tire size is 31 10X50 and 33 10X50 can fit with little trouble
-It's geared low with 4.65 gears in both ends, it's got some grunt.
-Not everyone and there mother has one. I was in Nashville this week and counted 7 FJ80's in the mall parking lot while looking for a space. I love the 80's quite a bit, but they are so popular now it kinda makes me not want one.

Problems
The butterfly valve (easy to replace it's just time consuming)
It has a timing belt...which means it will wear out so you better change it every 50-60k. The DOHC engine is $$$$ so it's much cheaper to keep running that to get running again.
It burns a quart of oil or so between oil changes. But at almost 200k I am cool with only 1 quart. My 90K Ford exploder burned 2-3.

Overall I love it, I say go for it and use the extra cash you will have to pay for gas for a road trip to break it in.:wings: