U.S. alternative to Seitz top hinged windows

#1
Online postings of Seitz windows mention poor bugs screens, difficulty in purchasing the window, obtaining parts is problematic and issues of durability. They do look great though.

Does anyone know of a domestic alternative to the acrylic Seitz S4 top hinged windows?
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Interested in
insulated glass
Good bug screen
Side support/bracket so that I can place the window open up to 90 degrees.
Roughly 30x45 inches
Would go next to a dinette table so in good weather we could open the window fully.

Thanks.
 
#2
I'm with you man. I need 2 of these bad boys and wouldn't mind finding a local alternative.

I even looked at truck canopies since they are large and pop out. But handles are outside.
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
#3
It annoys me to no end that Dometic seems to only allow North American sales of the Seitz windows to manufacturers, thus forcing humble camper builders like ourselves to order from Europe, live without, or use convoluted tactics to get them. WTH?, given that these are routine items in European Camping World equivalents.

I don't know of any practical alternatives. My Unimog camper's windows were Seitz equivalents from a competitor in the Netherlands, but even if they're still in business, they'd be no easier to source. Windows like those from Armor Vision are beautiful and eliminate the Seitz shortcomings, but are multiple times as expensive. If you find a good alternative, let us know and we'll elect you to the cabin builders' Hall or Fame.

I've written about this before, but have so far failed to strike the right entrepreneurial chord: The Anhui Maygood RV Accessories Ltd. company in China makes 27 sizes of an acrylic window that are, in the Chinese way, pretty much as exact replicas of the Seitz design. A few years back, one of our builders who needed five windows had the minimum order of ten shipped, used his five and then sold the remaining five on eBay. His report on the windows was that they seemed equivalent in all ways.

Sadly, the minimum order now appears to be twenty pieces and, of course, the shipping cost is gruesome, but it still seems that there is money to be made by someone investing in a minimum order and then selling the windows individually. With reasonable organization, potential buyers could submit their size requirements prior to the order so they got what they needed. The windows could be sold for Seitz window prices, which should leave some profit for the investor/organizer.

So, as they used to say about ideas on Histeria! . . . Take it; it's yours. :)
 

S2DM

Adventurer
#4
Would highly recommend checking out Outbound Motorhome windows in the Netherlands. Not US based, but their windows come fairly fast (in my case about 4 weeks to california) and are, atleast to me, much higher quality than the seitz product.

http://www.outbound.eu/en/windows.php


It annoys me to no end that Dometic seems to only allow North American sales of the

Seitz windows to manufacturers, thus forcing humble camper builders like ourselves to order from Europe, live without, or use convoluted tactics to get them. WTH?, given that these are routine items in European Camping World equivalents.

I don't know of any practical alternatives. My Unimog camper's windows were Seitz equivalents from a competitor in the Netherlands, but even if they're still in business, they'd be no easier to source. Windows like those from Armor Vision are beautiful and eliminate the Seitz shortcomings, but are multiple times as expensive. If you find a good alternative, let us know and we'll elect you to the cabin builders' Hall or Fame.

I've written about this before, but have so far failed to strike the right entrepreneurial chord: The Anhui Maygood RV Accessories Ltd. company in China makes 27 sizes of an acrylic window that are, in the Chinese way, pretty much as exact replicas of the Seitz design. A few years back, one of our builders who needed five windows had the minimum order of ten shipped, used his five and then sold the remaining five on eBay. His report on the windows was that they seemed equivalent in all ways.

Sadly, the minimum order now appears to be twenty pieces and, of course, the shipping cost is gruesome, but it still seems that there is money to be made by someone investing in a minimum order and then selling the windows individually. With reasonable organization, potential buyers could submit their size requirements prior to the order so they got what they needed. The windows could be sold for Seitz window prices, which should leave some profit for the investor/organizer.

So, as they used to say about ideas on Histeria! . . . Take it; it's yours. :)
 
#5
Could you take some pictures of the Outback windows so we can see what they look like in a non-sales picture. Also how was shipping in relation to cost, time and damage?
 
#6
Would highly recommend checking out Outbound Motorhome windows in the Netherlands. Not US based, but their windows come fairly fast (in my case about 4 weeks to california) and are, atleast to me, much higher quality than the seitz product.

http://www.outbound.eu/en/windows.php
Thank you for the information.

The windows appear to insulated glass rather than the Seitz acrylic.

Do the bug screens work well?

What % is their value added tax (VAT) and did you have to pay it since the windows were being shipped out of the country?

Did you have to pay a U.S. import tax?
 

S2DM

Adventurer
#7
Here are a few pics. We originally bought a set of windows from a rather unscrupulous, well known member of the forum that we were told were KCT, but ultimately determined were not KCT. After months of trying to get replacement parts (I.E. probably a hundred hours trying to track down KCT, then trying to track down the actual vendor), we opted to just get new windows, and these are great. The outer fiberglass frame feels somewhat flexible, but I believe that is normal and the strength will come when they are glued into the wall (the instructions call for sika 252, 3m 5200, so they will be very bonded).

We chose not to do the bug screens as they wouldnt work in our application (lifting roof), so we are doing some customs screens. But they look nice.

You'll have to contact outbound, but shipping and customs were both very reasonable, 3 large windows and a skylight came via air freight very quickly, and outbound handled the customs to the point of delivery. The customs agent just called us for the customs fees, which were around $200-300. Much easier than previous overseas deals Ive been a part of.





 
#8
Is anyone aware of any domestic double glazed window units used successfully in an rv/camper?

Using a 100x45 cm windows as an example, a seitz s4 costs circa £300, an outbound around double at circa £600. A domestic upvc, with hardened double glazing, costs about £150.

Is it worth considering? Would be great to here other people's experience's.

I am likely to have a >50mm wall panel thickness, so securing them I don't think will be an issue.

I see KCT make a deal about there windows being tested at astronomical heights, claiming some windows blow at 4000ft.
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
#9
Is anyone aware of any domestic double glazed window units used successfully in an rv/camper?
I think the biggest issue would be that the domestic windows are most commonly slider windows and are generally made for mounting in thinner walls. I've not seen many domestic awning windows at all, let alone double glazed.

Peninsula Glass (aka Motion Windows) in Vancouver, WA, makes a lot of higher end RV windows (along with my Sprinter's sliders). Checking with them might give you a good idea of what's possible for what price:

http://www.rvwindows.com/products/rv-elite-dual-pane-windows-series-1800/

I'l will say that unless you'll be almost exclusively in dry climates, having double-paned windows is a nice feature. Our first Sprinter had Seitz windows; our second one has the Peninsula single-pane sliders. And many--most, actually--mornings we wake up to a lot of moisture on the windows. (I've actually started carrying a squeegee.) No condensation on the Seitz windows, of course. On the other hand, in our van, the windshield, two door windows, slider door window and two rear door windows are all factory single pane glass, so even if we had, somehow, found double-paned versions of the windows we put in, there'd still be more drippy glass area than dry.

FWIW, the Seitz and equivalent double paned acrylic awning windows in my Sprinter and Mog cabins spent plenty of time at altitudes way above 4,000 feet ASL with no issues.
 
#10
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I realise I should have made clearer that I am in the UK, and perhaps hadn't appreciated the differences in domestic types of windows between the U.S and UK. Over here we have endless amounts of upvc and aluminium windows, with plenty of hinging options. I am making some enquiries so will share when I have any information.
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
#11
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I realise I should have made clearer that I am in the UK, and perhaps hadn't appreciated the differences in domestic types of windows between the U.S and UK. Over here we have endless amounts of upvc and aluminium windows, with plenty of hinging options. I am making some enquiries so will share when I have any information.
Yep, we may generally be chauvinistic Yanks, but we do so admire your camper window alternatives. :sombrero:

I, for one, will be delighted with any information you can pass on. Thanks.
 

Tony LEE

International Grey Nomad
#12
I see KCT make a deal about there windows being tested at astronomical heights, claiming some windows blow at 4000ft.

My European "plastic" double pane windows aren't sealed as the inside pane has two small tubes drilled into it with some sort of valve arrangement connecting the air space with the interior of the vehicle. Guess that might be harder to do in glass so KCT have to do something else. KCT have toughened glass which I would have thought to be way inferior to laminated glass as far as resisting breakage from the odd tree that jumps out as you pass.

The standard emergency escape window used in most US motorhomes and campers is a top hinged double-pane laminated window. Heavy darn thing to open and just about useless as an escape window, but it shows they can make awning windows.
 
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#13
Sounds like the plastic windows have some kind of pressure equaliser. I do wonder how much of an issue it is, but interesting you have identified a specific feature which seeks to deal with it. Is it a seitz brand window you have? It looks like the option of laminated glass is readily available in the sorts of windows I'm looking at. Do you have any more info/links to the standard emergency window to which you have referred?

perhaps they are banking on you being in a rush to get out and able.to summon the super strength required!
 
#14
I Dont think the Seitz have any special pressure compensating devisce, I just think they have enough flexin them to cope with the pressure changes . A small 0.5 mm hole in the corber of the inner pane would sort out major issues if you were at altitude and in trouble. This could esily be rectified with a bit of resin later .

Neil
 
#15
a couple of points. why do all modern airplane, marine and rv windows have radius corners? because the square corners create stress points at the 90 degree corners and then start stress fractures. another point I have talked to an rv window manufacturer and they recommended to me not to use double pane windows for off road use, they flat out said there would be a high failure rate with the seal between the two panes. when a company tells me to go with a cheaper line of products because it's more durable then their more expensive line I tend to listen. highdesertranger