U.S. alternative to Seitz top hinged windows

S2DM

Adventurer
#31
Just got back from abenteuer allrad in Germany and saw the KCT and Outbound kit first hand. The KCT stuff is luxury yacht standard, but to be honest I actually preferred the construction and look of the Outbound kit. The frameless double glazed window and slimmer profile frame looked so much tidier than the bulky KCT stuff. The seitz s4 windows are so cheap and plasticcy in comparison, but I can't fault anyone choosing them (as I likely will!) given the cost of the alternatives.
What is the price difference between the Outbound and Seitz (sorry, havent looked at seitz pricing)? I've not installed the Seitz but have seen them in a few campers. The Outbound feels like a pretty big step up in quality and durability is my laymans impression, might justify the price difference. I've handled a set of KCTs before, and they are as you say, luxury yacht level. And luxury yacht weight. I think unless I was building a Unicat level camper, the KCT would be overkill.
 
#32
Seitz are about half the price, but I think I'd go as far as saying the outbound are more than double the quality. Most seem to accept the Seitz aren't great quality for the money, but it's still a lot of money even for the cheapest suitable windows.
 
#33
I don't mean to criticise the Seitz S4 windows too much, as I obviously have no experience of them in the long term, just first impressions. I know Seitz do increasingly higher end windows too, so anyone's experience with anything from Seitz/Dometic would be very welcomed.
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
#34
I don't mean to criticise the Seitz S4 windows too much, as I obviously have no experience of them in the long term, just first impressions. I know Seitz do increasingly higher end windows too, so anyone's experience with anything from Seitz/Dometic would be very welcomed.
I only can comment on the "standard" Seitz S4 windows, of which I have had many across different campers. They are "plasticky," and built to a price . . . and the price does not seem any great value for the fairly flimsy pieces you get.

That said, however, the glazing portions have always worked fine once installed, and the flyscreen/shade combinations generally work OK if care is taken in using them. The double-pane construction is an excellent thing to have and a main reason to go this route. The screens do not seal at all well around the edges, so unless you tape down the sides, they are inadequate in areas of no-see-um type insects, but they keep out flies and generally mosquitos. And the window plastic seems to scratch if you look at it wrong, though if you care enough, scratches polish out okay.

All in all, I consider the S4s more than adequate in most uses, and the light weight and relatively easy installation are features. Except for the Chinese-made replicas, there's no way I know of to get double pane glazing for a comparable price. But they are "nothing special" in my mind. You pay a substantial price--though much less than alternatives--and get some cleverly fashioned pieces of plastic that generally do the job. Fair enough, but they don't strike me as adding to the overall quality of a high-end cabin.
 
#35
Thanks for your insights and feedback. It means a lot hearing from people who have them and can speak honestly about them. I had gone through the whole evaluating different options saga, settled on the S4's, then got challenged again by the outbound products...but ill likely still settle with the S4's! Thanks for your contribution.
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
#36
Thanks for your insights and feedback. It means a lot hearing from people who have them and can speak honestly about them. I had gone through the whole evaluating different options saga, settled on the S4's, then got challenged again by the outbound products...but ill likely still settle with the S4's! Thanks for your contribution.
I'm glad to have been of help. Given that I design to have all of my campers have a large number of windows--helps to have all the light you can manage in Oregon winters--I, too, suspect that cost concerns will always have me focused on the lower end windows.

I will remind the group that in the single instance I know of a camper builder using the Anhui Maygood replica windows, the builder pronounced them as equivalent to the Seitz S4s. I'm personally not building anything at this moment, but given the pricing provided above, there's likely potential merit of three or four builders going together to meet the 20 unit minimum order.
 
#39
So I like Anhui Maygood but my conversations with them make me a bit nervous to sent them my money. Below is a quick price check on Outbound Verses Seitz S4 Top Hinged Windows from a quick google search.

Outbound
660 x 330 mm € 615 $701.10
650 x 400 mm € 670 $763.80
600 x 500 mm € 700 $798.00
990 x 400 mm € 875 $997.50
990 x 600 mm € 925 $1,054.50
1700 x 550 mm € 1,205 $1,373.70

Sietz S4
650 x 300 mm € 275 $313.50
600 x 500 mm € 335 $381.90
1000 x 450 mm € 435 $495.90
1000 x 500 mm € 445 $507.30
1600 x 550 mm € 620 $706.80

David
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
#42
Has anyone called the UK suppliers to see if they post to the US? Might give them a call tomorrow if no one else has.
Although I remember virtually nothing useful (most notably, I can't come up with the British supplier), I recall talking to a builder who did this and had a positive experience. The seller was happy to help and, IIRC, was sufficiently aghast at shipping charges as to offer a discount to help offset them.

I'm sorry that I can't be more helpful, but I do remember that this approach worked at least once, with the freight charges being the only drawback.
 
#43
So I have spoke to 2 different UK vendors. Both are willing to sell to a US customer. But, both say the windows don't travel well. One of the vendors doesn't even like to sell to Northern Ireland or the rest of the EU due to possible damage. Both said they would be glad to sell but they will not be responsible for damages. They don't have couriers that are able to wooden crate and box up merchandise.

Might have to go the Chinese route. Anyone interested in sharing 20 windows?? I only need 3-4.