Unimog or 911 for Family of 5

[stasieks]

This is my first post on this forum, first of all I would like to say "Hi" to all users.

I'm traveling with my family of 5 (2 adults + 3 kids, (7, 5 and 3 years old) in Land Rover Defender 130 with roof tent. But, as my kids are growing bigger and bigger I feel the LR starts to be a bit small. Hence the need of buying a new vehicle.

I'm considering only two vehicles:
Unimog (DoKa), bulit 1980 - 2000 with camper body. The car is a proper offroader and will suit our needs, but (especially DoKa) is quite short.
Mercedes 911 or 1113 (also double cabin). The car as far as I know is not much of an offroader, but is not as complicated as Unimog and can accommodate a longer camper body.

My question is: what will be a better choice for my family? We mainly travel in Europe, plan to go to Americas, Asia.

Thank you and all the best in New Year!

 

[charlieaarons]

Clearly cost is an issue considering your choices of vehicles. You would have to sink a lot of money into an older Unimog rebuilding the portals for reliability. 90% of overland driving is on pavement, 8% on good dirt roads and only 2% “off-road”.
I would get a 4wd 1113 with turbo for 170hp. You will need and want the extra hp for road driving. They always have a rear diff lock and usually a front. Ideally single rear tires with enough load capacity. There’s many people with expertise in these vehicles in Europe that know a lot more than me.
The wheelbase will need to be quite long; the round nose trucks have a substantial bonnet and you want the Doka and a big enough camper.

 

[DiploStrat]

Unlike Dr. Aarons, I have not owned a Unimog. Rob Blackwell has and has driven it from the US to the US via Asia. He can give you chapter and verse on the pros and cons of owning a 'mog. That said, I agree with Charlie - I would love a 924 for the power and torque without the pain of the portal axles and complex gearbox.

I do own a 917 based camper, replacing a Tiger on a US pickup and I spent decades in conventional SUV type 4x4's.

For Europe a MB LKW is current production and should be easy to maintain. Once you put a camper on a truck you are basically limited to dirt roads as you aren't going to be doing any rock crawling and mud is simply scary with heavy vehicles. With proper tires, a locking diff or two, and some care, you should be fine for anywhere in the world that you are going to go.

Our 917 has been across the US a few times and it is underpowered, noisy, and slow. It really makes us miss the 6.6 turbo diesel in our Tiger. That said, the larger camper is worth it every time we stop. So limit your driving to two or three hours a day, two or three days a week, and you should be fine.

More comments, pictures, and details on our website.

And welcome to the forum, lots of people with real world experience with various forms of Mercedes Benz here. Hopefully they will join in the discussion.

EDITED TO ADD Rob Blackwell's website: http://www.whiteacorn.com/home/rtw

 

[Joe917]

I would suggest you broaden your search. Charlie and Diplostrat both offer good advice. Being in Poland you are not restricted to buying older vehicles European like we are in North America. I would say that there is not a big advantage having a Mog compared to a 4x4 truck with locking diffs once you get them fully loaded. With a family of 5 every inch of vehicle length needs to be used to the fullest, the large round hood on the old Mercedes wastes a lot. I do love the look though. See if it is possible to have legal seating in the camper, this might save you going to the Doka.

 

[Sitec]

Hello and welcome. As those before me have said, out of your three chosen vehicles I too would go with the Mercedes 1113. The 'bull nose' Merc's have a real appeal about them. My wife would have loved one! That said, as Joe917 rightly said, you do loose a lot of space with the bonnet/nose on both the Mog and truck you have chosen. Even a 'cabover' DoKa uses less space than the bonneted trucks. I too suggest widening your search parameters slightly to maybe include 917's, 1017's etc... There is a mountain of info to be had in just the build threads in this section alone. There are several who have been/ are in the same position as you. Good luck in your choice, and look and drive plenty before jumping in and making a purchase.

 

[stasieks]

Thank you for all your comments.

I know every inch (centimeter) is important, but my plan is to adapt rear seats of DoKa for parents sleeping area. I also like the looks of 911 / 1113 but lack of offroad possibilities is a real pain. On the other hand offroading in a big truck might be a bit of a challenge itself.

Sitting places outside main cabin are illegal in Poland.

Here are the pictures of the seats/sleeping space (image of random Unimog):

 

[Joe917]

I'm not sure what you expect as far as off-roading (perhaps you can elaborate), but the Mercedes 917,1017 etc are very capable bad road vehicles. Certainly in North and South America you won't be off roading so much as exploring remote tracks.

 

[stasieks]

I'm thinking of bad quality forest roads, meadows and "Morocco style" dunes. Certainly not rock crawling or deep water wading.

Our Land Rover Defender gives us the possibility to drive away from the main road and I need to be sure that our next car will be also ready for some off-road activities.

 

[Sitec]

If you build your body right with provision for chassis flex and with a decent rear departure angle/clearance, and fit decent tyres, The 1113 will go most places you want. Unlike the Land Rover, once you have a decent body on the rear of a truck you'll rethink where you actually 'want' to go and where you really 'need' to go. When I started thinking about a truck build, I had grand aspirations of a huge 6x6 truck with a huge body and the thoughts of climbing mountains in the thing. I then spent a year or two on this forum watching and researching what people build, where they go etc etc, and soon realized that I won't be rock crawling in my 12 tonner. I think Ian U1250 is the only fella who really 'uses' his Mog to it's full potential, and apart from a few seriously interesting places, I'd like to think I would tackle a lot of what he's done in our truck. (That might change when I get there though!!). Asking questions early is at least a very good start!

 

[DiploStrat]

I'm thinking of bad quality forest roads, meadows and "Morocco style" dunes. ...

MB LKW (917 et al) will do all of that with ease - you certainly don't need a Unimog for Morrocco. Biggest challenge for sand is tires. Like a lot of folks, I run 22.5 and they are stiff and do not have safety beads. 20" are usually beadlocks and have softer sidewalls, but wear faster, can be more expensive, and hard to find outside of the US and Europe. I have run both.

Basically, for what you are describing, any LKW, or MAN, Iveco, etc. with 4x4 will be fine.

For what it is worth, I would love a double cab, both for the extra legal seats and for more leg room.

Doing it over again, I would build on a standard US truck, probably gasoline to get the highway speed, quiet, and factory air conditioning. My truck was an Austrian fire truck and they don't do air conditioning in Austria.

 

[Christian]

Hi stazieks,

I used to drive unimogs in the army, and while they are impressive beasts in heavy offroading, they are extremely complicated mechanically, demand special tools, parts can be very expensive (look a brake caliper up, but sit down while you do it), and not very comfortable on the road. The cabin is small and noisy...

We opted for the LAF 1113B, for several reasons, that you might find important to you too:

1: There's a bunch to choose from for sale in Europe, so prices are reasonable for a low km truck.
2: They were built for decades, and are still in use, so parts are readily available all over the world.
3: The cab is very big and "roomy", and if the tank (on an ex-firefighter) is relocated, you can have a completely flat floor.
4: The nose means the engine ISN'T in the cab, between the seats, so a comfiguration with 3 comfortable seats is possible, or a genuine walkthrough between the front seats
5: An alkove is not a problem, since you do not tilt the cab to access the engine

Besides all the above, they are simple leafsprung trucks, easy to work on, with a lot of options for improvement, better noise insulation, etc.
If you doubt the offroad capability, look here:

 

[grizzlyj]

Hiya

I don't really get why people say you won't use a Mog's off road ability once you put your house on the back? If that's what you want to do then why not? Many, many choose a Mog to travel as you know. The proportion of other miles travelled compared to those when you have diff locks engaged, tyres aired down, using working gears and an exhaust brake etc are tiny but I think very worth it. No where needs a Mog, but will you go looking for the bits that do with the risk that entails?

But, do you want to live in or beside your vehicle? So follow the nice weather or be independant of it? The French family linked below had a Doka Mog with a small camper they all shared but I think mostly lived beside? Theirs was a heavy chassis U2150 with plenty of spare payload, bigger tyre size possible than many trucks at that weight as a factory option, bigger portals with more oil in them than the 7500kg chassis', but not too big an increase in unladen weight depending on options.

Expédition opensens

le tour du monde d'une famille en camion 4x4 pendant 4 années à travers tous les continents

www.opensens.com

If you want to live inside it for a long time then something longer than a Mog may be a better option?

 

[DiploStrat]

I think the point is that once a camper/expedition vehicle hits a certain size/weight, then it is not going to be doing much rock crawling. And at that size/weight, a MB LKW or MAN, Iveco, etc. has more than enough 4x4 ability (e.g. locking differentials, low gears) to handle any road where it will fit.

So the point that we are all making is that the price and complexity penalties of a Unimog are not likely to get you any real world advantage.

 

[Neil]

Diplostrat.

Agreed.

Whilst the unimog is a fantastic vehicle I have yet to see the advantage over many other vehicles. Once you put a £120,000 cabin on the back, you are not going to use it to its ability. It's your home. Why would you risk your dream.

Great vehicle but not necessary for 99% of overlanders or overlanding.

Neil

 

[charlieaarons]

Again I agree with the above. When I was in the market for a chassis a dealer selling new U500s was walking distance from my house, in 2005. At that time it was the best chassis that fit my requirements (high gvw, low end gearing, lockers and preferably CTIS).
If I were in the market now I would consider for example an Acela LMTV with CTIS that works, rear and maybe front lockers and spend $25k on the T30 2 spd transfer case.
If I were in Europe- many choices.
So that no one needs to ask: I have used lockers, working gears and CTIS to get through things and get unstuck MANY times in the last 13.5 years.