Polluting vehicle restrictions in Europe

[uncompromise]

[EDIT: I posted this in order to make it easy for European drivers to find reliable information on where and when their vehicle can drive in Europe, but not surprisingly the thread has become a discussion of a number of other related topics. It’s worth noting that any discussion about ‘dirty diesel’ is a misnomer. The restrictions are about the pollution level of any vehicle in Europe; diesel is not specifically targeted by these restrictions, although the prevalence of older diesel vehicles in Europe might make it appear as if this is the case. We have now purchased the French Crit Air certification, and have few concerns about where in France we can take our vehicle, and as mentioned in the original post, few concerns about being able to drive our now 16 year old truck across most of the continent. Yes, the level of restriction will increase over time, and frankly I consider that to be a good thing. But for now, we are within our legal right to take our truck almost anywhere we would want to drive it. Side note: Germany is now considering the possibility of vehicle retrofits, which suggests that we may see a catalytic conversion market open up in Europe, breathing considerably more life into older vehicles, and ensuring that the ENORMOUS sunk carbon cost of building a car isn’t unnecessarily wasted due to politics trumping science yet again).

I’m getting up to speed on clean air ordinances in Europe, having just purchased a 2004 Mitsubishi Pajero / Montero 3.2 DiD. In short, if you’re looking for a reliable resource for your specific vehicle - or a vehicle you’re thinking to purchase - I highly recommend the Green Zones app — https://www.green-zones.eu/en/globale-seiten/the-green-zones-app.html.

Enter information about your vehicle, including license plate number, date of first registration, co2 emissions and the like, and the app will show you EXACTLY where you can and cannot drive.

Noting that my vehicle is unable to drive in any of the German zones, two of the Spanish, and one of the Netherlands zones, but is largely unrestricted everywhere else in Europe.

We’re buying a clean air sticker for our car, even though it’s not a requirement, as it’s going to save us a bunch of headaches if we ever get pulled over.

1. All of Europe

2. Germany

 

[MTVR]

Getting up to speed on clean air ordinances in Europe, having just purchased a 2004 Mitsubishi Pajero / Montero 3.2 DiD. In short, if you’re looking for a reliable resource for your specific vehicle - or a vehicle you’re thinking to purchase - I highly recommend the Green Zones app — https://www.green-zones.eu/en/globale-seiten/the-green-zones-app.html.

Enter information about your vehicle, including license plate number, date of first registration, co2 emissions and the like, and the app will show you EXACTLY where you can and cannot drive.

Noting that my vehicle is unable to drive in any of the German zones, two of the Spanish, and one of the Netherlands zones, but is largely unrestricted everywhere else in Europe.

We’re buying a clean air sticker for our car, even though it’s not a requirement, as it’s going to save us a bunch of headaches if we ever get pulled over.

1. All of Europe

2. Germany

I don't understand your maps- the green stickers are for cars that are cleaner than cars with red stickers, but your map appears to show the green sticker areas as red dots.

When we did the European Delivery for my wife's new BMW Track Pack car, it came with the green sticker, so we were allowed to go anywhere (except for Liechtenstein, because our particular German license plates were not good there).



BTW, some German cities have banned diesels- Berlin, Hamburg, Stuttgart and Darmstadt so far, with other cities pending.

Thousands of diesel driving ban infractions in German cities

www.cleanenergywire.org

And finally, you don't need any emissions sticker to go on the Autobahns, even where the Autobahns pass through cities that your vehicle is not allowed in, so you can still drive to/through the city on the Autobahn, park outside the city, and take the S-Bahn into it.

 

[uncompromise]

I don't understand your maps- the green stickers are for cars that are cleaner than cars with red stickers, but your map appears to show the green sticker areas as red dots.

The dots show where my specific vehicle can and can’t go based upon its emissions.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MTVR]

The dots show where my specific vehicle can and can’t go based upon its emissions.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, I understand now.

I guess you'll need to ride the S-Bahn into those cities.

 

[billiebob]

This brings back memories, first when the USA toughened emissions standards in the late 1970s and the USA auto industry was saying it can't be done and Honda said we exceeded those requirements 2 years ago with the CCVC engine. Then in the 1990s when the USA banned 2 cycle motors and Mercury and Evinrude screamed we cannot build 4 stroke outboards, they will be too heavy. Someone mentioned they had been building them in Europe for 5 years.

Corporations hate change but when pushed.... they "git 'er done".

The fact I was blown away by was the statistic from California which said 2 cycle engines.... lawn mowers thru outboards.... produced over 1000 times the hydrocarbons of all Californias registered highway vehicles.

There are zero downsides to electric vehicles. 100 years ago the gas/electric vehicle market split was close to 50/50. Cheap crude and Henry Ford changed all that. 150 yearsago, long before the gas engine was invented the London Tube was electric.... still is. 50 years ago many busses were electric trolley busses.

Notice how blue that Edmonton sky is in this 1970s photo.

 

[Regcabguy]

Meanwhile over in the USA, on the left coast....new rules mean diesel and gasser f350‘s and K3500’s and the like, as well as diesel and gas *vans* are on their way out ....

California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks
must be electric by 2024

California regulators have approved new rules that would see a massive shift from conventional gas and diesel trucks and vans to ones powered by batteries and zero-emission hydrogen fuel cells.

The first-of-their-kind guidelines, which take effect in 2024, cover a broad range of truck segments, from medium-duty models up to the "big rigs" that move vast amount of goods throughout California and across the country. Current guidelines from the California Air Resources Board already press manufacturers to add electric and hydrogen trucks to light-duty segments....

Under guidelines approved Thursday, at least 40 percent of the tractor trailers sold in California would have to be powered by some form of zero-emissions technology by 2024. Medium-duty trucks, such as the Ford F-250 or Chevrolet Silverado HD, would be required to switch over 55 percent of their sales by 2035; and 75 percent of delivery trucks and vans would have to use zero-emissions powertrain technology by 2035, a point by which fully 100 percent of government fleets and last-mile delivery trucks would have to meet the target.

(now might be the time to start looking towards ordering one of the new Workhorse 15 electric trucks ...)

California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

news.yahoo.com

They consider F-250's medium duty trucks?

 

[Regcabguy]

This brings back memories, first when the USA toughened emissions standards in the late 1970s and the USA auto industry was saying it can't be done and Honda said we exceeded those requirements 2 years ago with the CCVC engine. Then in the 1990s when the USA banned 2 cycle motors and Mercury and Evinrude screamed we cannot build 4 stroke outboards, they will be too heavy. Someone mentioned they had been building them in Europe for 5 years.

Corporations hate change but when pushed.... they "git 'er done".

The fact I was blown away by was the statistic from California which said 2 cycle engines.... lawn mowers thru outboards.... produced over 1000 times the hydrocarbons of all Californias registered highway vehicles.

There are zero downsides to electric vehicles. 100 years ago the gas/electric vehicle market split was close to 50/50. Cheap crude and Henry Ford changed all that. 150 yearsago, long before the gas engine was invented the London Tube was electric.... still is. 50 years ago many busses were electric trolley busses.

Notice how blue that Edmonton sky is in this 1970s photo.

View attachment 594871

Far less vehicles of any sort back too. San Diego had electric streetcars before the oil companies buried the tracks. They were replaced with soot belching diesels. No amount of wind or solar's going to produce enough electricity to power the incoming electric era. If the scientists can ever harness the overwhelming power of fusion reaction it'll devour atomic waste for dinner and incinerate virtually anything carbon with next to no waste. Generators will power the world effortlessly. Germany's eliminating fission reactor and coal derived electricity only to buy fossil fueled current from across their borders. Cars are going to need exchangeable batteries or 5 minute recharges and 400 mile ranges to be viable for anything other than urban use. It's coming and can be done but it's going to take something like the WW11 war effort to accomplish it. Gotta get off the fossil fuel.

 

[billiebob]

Far less vehicles of any sort back too. San Diego had electric streetcars before the oil companies buried the tracks. They were replaced with soot belching diesels. No amount of wind or solar's going to produce enough electricity to power the incoming electric era. If the scientists can ever harness the overwhelming power of fusion reaction it'll devour atomic waste for dinner and incinerate virtually anything carbon with next to no waste. Generators will power the world effortlessly. Germany's eliminating fission reactor and coal derived electricity only to buy fossil fueled current from across their borders. Cars are going to need exchangeable batteries or 5 minute recharges and 400 mile ranges to be viable for anything other than urban use. It's coming and can be done but it's going to take something like the WW11 war effort to accomplish it. Gotta get off the fossil fuel.

Don't forget the option of charging at home for commuters. The potential of everyone offgrid generating a houdeholds needs without the need for a utility. Can it be done? Look at yer smart phone vs the first mobile phones.

Industry will deny the possibility until governments mandate it.

Nothing smart about this.

 

[billiebob]

No amount of wind or solar's going to produce enough electricity to power the incoming electric era. Cars are going to need exchangeable batteries or 5 minute recharges and 400 mile ranges to be viable for anything other than urban use. It's coming and can be done but it's going to take something like the WW11 war effort to accomplish it.

Computers did it without WWIII. No ones smart phone comes with an extra battery today.

Even cars today, we have made huge leaps in economy, power, weight. Todays Subaru looks like the first ones yet they drive like supercars and get better economy every year. Channel that expertise into electric cars and soon the Tesla will look like a Model T. We just fail to focus. Read all the comments, the public ridicules all the new technologies. THAT is the elephant in the room. Public doubt. No one will make giant steps til they perceive the risk is reduced. Look back at your own negativity ^^^ yet you are the are vocal supporter.

For me, the power of an electric car is independence off grid. Not a new opportunity for Corporations to add profit. Corporations know that hence they are fighting the advancement of anything leading to independence and the ability of households to live off grid. The harder they fight, the more vocal corporations get, the more realistic the goal is. Corporations are scared shi**ess. They are tied to the fossil fuel industry it is all interconnected. But they all hate change.

 

[MTVR]

Keep in mind that the majority of electricity in the U.S. is still generated by burning dead dinosaurs.

So even if you choose to ignore the environmental rape associated with the production of your electric vehicle batteries, you are still responsible for the black coal soot being belched into the sky to charge them.

 

[MTVR]

Here's a video of an Audi station wagon dumping a Tesla in a quarter-mile drag race.


I guess the petrol engine isn't dead after all, lol...

 

[MTVR]

The current electric vehicle Cannonball record is 45 hours and 16 minutes.

A guy in a gasoline-fueled rental car recently did it in 25 hours and 55 minutes.

You do the math...

 

[MTVR]

Here is a video of a Porsche 911 Turbo S doing 50 ten-second standing quarter-miles in rapid succession, without refueling:


Here is a video of a Tesla...oh wait...a Tesla can't do that...

 

[MTVR]

How many Teslas have ever won the 24 Hours of Le Mans?

 

[MTVR]

The current outright lap record for the Snaefel mountain course during the Isle Of Man TT, is 16:42.778, set by Peter Hickman on a gasoline-powered motorcycle. These bikes do this for six laps, including stopping every other lap to refuel and to have a new rear tire installed.

The current lap record for electric motorcycles, is almost two minutes slower, and they only have to do it for ONE lap, with no stops.