Victron Blue Smart Charger (Not solar)

[hour]

Anyone used these? I didn't even know they existed until the other day.

$140 for 300w of charging power, bluetooth monitoring ability, and has a lifepo4 preset (14.2 absorption, float/storage at 13.5)

The storage mode kicks in whenever the battery has not been subjected to discharge during 24 hours. In the storage mode float voltage is reduced to 2,2 V/cell (13,2 V for a 12 V battery) to minimise gassing and corrosion of the positive plates. Once a week the voltage is raised back to the absorption level to ‘equalize’ the battery. This feature prevents stratification of the electrolyte and sulphation, a major cause of early battery failure.

I don't know what to make of that blurb above and how much of it pertains to lifepo4, but they do specifically state a float/storage voltage for this battery type at 13.5v.

Cons: in loading the demo for this unit on the victron app it doesn't allow customizing charge parameters, only presets. What a mistake, they could have treated it just their MPPT charge controllers and given the user complete freedom. They could have even used the same layouts and recycled code (from an app development perspective)

Pros: Obviously bluetooth for monitoring, ability to charge your lead/agm/life batteries with one unit, flip from 25a to 10a from your couch (on the 25a unit), float voltage and whatever the automatic storage sensing thing is in quotes above.

I would jump on this before getting a dumb charger @ 14.6 volts from Progressive Dynamics as Battleborn suggests and sells on their website. The absorption is slightly lower than battleborn recommends (14.4-14.6v, this goes to 14.2 for lifepo4 setting) which still may be higher than one wishes to go, and might not get you to the point that balancing happens. Not much of a concern for DIY battery jobs.

The IP22 12v/30a Victron is $0-20 more than the 30a Progressive Dynamics 14.6v power supply looking unit from Battleborn at $200.

The IP67 12/25a Victron is $140 and for less than $6 more you can get this rubber bumper thing for it

Sounds like a good buy to me. Have no idea when the product came out and haven't seen anything on here. The IP67 model could easily be mounted in a vehicle or truck bed and run from shore power or any generator. If you lop off the ring connectors the unit comes with, you could standardize on anderson powerpoles or whatever and remove it to charge your other batteries when needed.

Thoughts?

 

[john61ct]

Victron makes great stuff, almost all across the board.

Buy not based on price but from a dealer that will give good support ongoing.

14.2 absorption, float/storage at 13.5

Nice to see some rationality in a "LFP ready" charge source, every other one I've looked at is set at stupidly higher setpoints.

Personally 13.8V is my maximum, but it can vary, depends.

I require user-custom adjustability, so if that truly is not available, say even via comms from other gear, that's a deal-breaker for me.

> they do specifically state a float/storage voltage for this battery type at 13.5v.

Storage for LFP should be much lower, that is still maintaining a 100% SoC, very unhealthy.

3.30Vpc is better, around 30% if resting there, but ideal would be take bank offline and just do a full cycle charge / discharge back to 3.30Vpc (13.2V for 4S) once a month or so, or more frequently if BMS parasitic draw + self-discharge warrants.





but

> as Battleborn suggests

Do not pay attention to them IMO

 

[shade]

> as Battleborn suggests

Do not pay attention to them IMO

The more I read, it seems they're interested in promoting the compatibility of their batteries with existing charging systems, with less concern for the long term impact on the battery being subjected to sub-optimal charging parameters.

 

[john61ct]

Yes. But I wonder, may just be blindly following the specs given them by the Chinese cells and BMS OEMs.

That 10-year warranty may well prove unsustainable, but then again may be full of loopholes.

 

[shade]

Yes. But I wonder, may just be blindly following the specs given them by the Chinese cells and BMS OEMs.

That 10-year warranty may well prove unsustainable, but then again may be full of loopholes.

Could be. I'm still watching how it plays out for @dreadlocks. Even if they take care of him, BattleBorn is off my list given the opacity of their BMS.

 

[john61ct]

Anyway, back to the charger.

Looks doubtful that setpoints are adjustable, not compatible with VE.Bus 8-(

Nor does that Storage Mode algorithm appear to apply to LFP 8-(

Their confusing the LI / "Li-ion" label with LFP (LiFeP04) does not help matters, especially since Victron sells LI (non LFO) packaged system batteries, that apparently would **not** be compatible with this charger.

Phew. . .

 

[hour]

Anyway, back to the charger.

Looks doubtful that setpoints are adjustable, not compatible with VE.Bus 8-(

Nor does that Storage Mode algorithm appear to apply to LFP 8-(

Their confusing the LI / "Li-ion" label with LFP (LiFeP04) does not help matters, especially since Victron sells LI (non LFO) packaged system batteries, that apparently would **not** be compatible with this charger.

Phew. . .

Yeah I noticed the charge preset is listed as Li-ion in the demo app for the blue solar line but clarified everywhere else as lifepo4. I wouldn't call the lack of custom settings a deal breaker though especially for the price. Charging to 14.2 might be overdoing it but it doesn't seem like the end of the world to do on occasion on a healthy battery.

My primary use for this would be supplementing solar on a cloudy day via generator. On an as needed basis like that I'd be monitoring it fairly closely and could cut off charging whenever my BMV told me I was topped up. I'd also have a constant load on the battery from lights/fridge/whatever in these scenarios. I never remove my battery and it's always fed solar, so a smart storage charger isn't very beneficial. It would be somewhat nice for my portable packs which do come in and sit around for weeks at a time but ah well.

Still sounds better than dumb charging it to 14.6v with a Progressive Dynamics unit or a puny Noco Genius onboard (14.2v lithium mode and no mention of a float mode). Guessing there's a sterling or other $350something unit that would give you complete control but that's significantly more money to spend on something that won't be used frequently, and I don't get the impression that the solar crowd requires onboard chargers very often or would leave things unattended for hours on end with the generator running and zero load on the battery.

This is an option I'm considering, though half the benefit is lost if you don't have access to balance leads, like with a drop in replacement (I have balance leads on all my stuff):

1100w hobby charger (or 600w, or dual output, whatever you want) - ranging from $60-150

And since the above unit accepts up to 49v input... a 48v (can dial down to 44v) Meanwell 600w PSU at $80. Or roll the dice with a cheaper PSU. Or a 36v, or 24v PSU depending on what the hobby charger accepts and how much one wants to crank out.

That gives you the option to throw down a ton of power, completely adjustable current, and a lot of chargers give you free range over charge voltage per cell. At worst (an ISDT unit I have, and probably most ISDTs) I can charge up to 13.6v (3.4/cell) in their storage mode and avoid the minimum for lifepo4 in actual charge mode (3.6v).

Plus, you can dumb charge with them if you don't want to connect balance leads for some reason.

But it sure isn't as neatly packaged of a solution. Could probably mount the PSU permanently in a covered location (under a platform or in my truck bed anywhere since I have a camper shell) and then whip out the palm-sized hobby charger as needed. I'd put the whole shebang in an ammo can with a NOCO 120v power inlet in the side if I could figure out ventilation.

A 300w hobby charger and suitable PSU (still by meanwell) could get you out the door for $100, and if it's one that gives you complete freedom of voltage then that sounds superior to a sterling or something for way more money that still lacks individual cell monitoring and balance capabilities when needed.

No clue why I typed all of that, I have to wake up in an hour to go to work and I haven't gone to bed yet.

 

[dreadlocks]

You checked out the ProNautic/Sterling chargers? I intend to replace my Progressive Dynamics PSU with a 40A ProNautic.

 

[john61ct]

I know PD does make some reliable stuff, and was under the impression user-custom programmability was offered with add-on regulators?

But yes, basically the RV "converter" market IMO does not deliver as good quality as you get from marine vendors.

And **obviously** the automotive gear for Starter batts is barely worth considering.

But in the end Volts are volts, Amps are amps, and if you or your BMS are regulating things even a bare PSU and/or DCDC converters will get you there.

But personally Sterling/Pronautic user-custom is, to me worth the extra for set-it and walk away automation, once configured properly.

I am very interested in that Storage Mode algorithm as a concept though, hope that idea spreads.

Too bad only applied to lead in this implementation.

 

[dreadlocks]

Ive been disappointed in my Lithium PD, its a 45A and its never outputted anywhere near 45A.. most is ~30A, and then the longer it runs at full output the lower that full output goes.. after 2-3h of running in the summer its under 20A... There is also no pots on the board to adjust the output voltage at all and their charge wizard dont allow any customization either.. just makes em multistage from a constant current/voltage.

the warranty was good tho, they upgraded me from the regular 30A charger my trailer came with to the 45A "Lithium Ready" charger for free when my 30A had a solder joint fail on me..

 

[john61ct]

Checked my notes, and spologies, got my wires crossed.

It's Iota DLS-X series that was recommended to me by an RVer with LFP, apparently user-custom tweaking is possible with the IQ4 option?

 

[dwh]

apparently user-custom tweaking is possible with the IQ4 option?

Not really. They now have an assortment of IQ modules to choose from, but none are user configurable beyond choosing which one to plug in.

 

[john61ct]

8-(

OK, dealbreaker for me then, but others aren't as fussy

 

[shade]

The IP22 12v/30a Victron is $0-20 more than the 30a Progressive Dynamics 14.6v power supply looking unit from Battleborn at $200.

The IP67 12/25a Victron is $140 and for less than $6 more you can get this rubber bumper thing for it

I've been looking at both of those again. Unfortunately, the IP22 is for 220VAC only. Too bad, because I'd wire it to charge the house & start batteries.

I think the rubber bumper thing is for the 15A model.

I'd like to see some flexibility on voltage, but for my limited use, the IP67 25A model would probably be fine.

 

[Photobug]

I have considered the Victron AC Charger for my power box build. I like some of the features and its form factor. Victron seems responsive to customer suggestions. Let's hope there is a firmware update that can make the Victron chargers so that the charging parameters are user programmable.