Water Storage Freezing Question

[West Coast Mags]

I bought a used truck camper that I'm refinishing and updating inside and will be installing it on a fullsize pick up. I'm making lots of layout changes and am pretty much starting fresh. I've hit a road block on the water storage issue, I've read through some great threads here on expo and am covered on pumps, plumbing, storage etc but have a pretty basic question that I need advice on: water freezing?

The camper currently has about a 15 gallon tank inside the camper but due to my planned layout I was considering mounting it under the truck where the factory spare tire used to be. I had planned to install a similar sized fresh tank and slightly smaller gray water tank, and thought of advantages of having the water down low for better center of gravity, also it would be easy to make a mounting set up underneath and between the frame rails and it would be easy to fill and drain also by being external of the camper. But I plan to occasionaly do some winter camping in the truck so I started thinking about freezing issues.

For the folks that camper-camp in cold climates do you have your water supply in the camper and a heater running inside all the time to keep it above freezing, or have you gotten by with water storage outside of the camper. Or do you have circulation devices or heaters for the water supply if it is stored externally.

I am short on space inside for a large water tank and would really like to store it under the truck between the frame rails, but on the other hand, I'm building the truck with the intention of occasionaly camping stationary in the snow for upto a week on occasion. Any advice on ways to make external water storage work in the winter? Thanks in advance!

 

[rusty_tlc]

You can buy tank heaters from RV supply stores.
Don't forget the gray water, unless you don't mind waiting until spring to dump it.:elkgrin:

Kind of off topic, but one year we went camping in late fall, there was an early cold snap. I couldn't dump the black water tank when we got home because it was frozen solid.

Years later we bought an Arctic Fox that had tank heaters for the black and gray water tanks. We could camp in 14 degree F weather with no problem.

 

[WAND3R3R]

Water freeze

I have winter camped and recommend the following;
-In winter I leave the camper fresh water tank empty. I use 5 gallon water tanks that I move from the truck cab (when driving) to the camper for the night. That way water does not usually freeze.
-I use RV anti-freeze in the toilet and gray/black water tanks (pink in color) and in the drains to keep them from freezing .

The problem with using your camper fresh water tank in the winter is that it can freeze up fast. Unless you are plugged to shore power or plan to run a propane heated 24/7 then it's hard to keep them from freezing. The overland crowd likes to go hike, fish, ski (winter sports) and are away from their trucks or campers a lot during the day, so running a heater is not a great idea if you are not there to keep an eye on it. Once the water containers are warm, wrap them in a wool blanket if you are going to be away from them for the day they shouldn't freeze.

 

[West Coast Mags]

I will have to continue to look into RV tank heaters, so far have not found anything.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

I will have to continue to look into RV tank heaters, so far have not found anything.

It's not just the tanks. You have to take into account the waterlines and the trap(s) on the drains.

If you only cold weather camp once/twice a year, I would build the camper for 'warm' weather, and when you go in the cold, carry the fresh water in jugs.

A tank heater for the gray/black water would be good, if you plan on using the sink/etc.

But as stated, unless you have 'shore power', keeping heat-tape on the waterlines, and/or heat in the camper fulltime, it's a situation you'll need to adapt to.


At our cabin (which we use year round, but only heat while there) we ran all the water lines so they self drain back into the well.

For the drains and toilet, we use the RV antifreeze (pink stuff) when we leave, to keep the traps from freezing/busting.

If you use a set up like this, and have a self priming pump that will also empty the water from itself by gravity, then you might get by with just a tank heater on the fresh water tank. I would also insulate the tank well, so the tank heater is more effective.

:coffeedrink:

 

[rusty_tlc]

I'll echo the statement on using 5Gallon jugs for fresh water in winter. We would add a splash of RV antifreeze in the sink and toilet at the end of a trip to keep the traps from freezing.

 

[West Coast Mags]

Thanks for the good realistic advice. In reality probably 10% of my camping may be in freezing temperatures, though it could change in the future to a larger portion. But for the time being, I should probably just plan for warm weather and as suggested just change the water routine if the temp is below freezing.

My daily life here in civilation is packed to brim where every second counts and I seem to be forgetting that when planning the camper build. In the field I won't need to "power shower" because I'm late for a meeting, but instead will have no problem farting around setting up the shower system, taking the shower, putting the stuff back etc and can do it at a days leisure. I must remind myself to relax when I am "pretend camping" in my mind as I design this layout

 

[Scoutn79]

Tank heaters are resistive units and use a lot of juice. Either take a small genset or plan on running the truck engine a lot to use this type of heater. We hunt in a hardside trailer where it gets below zero most nights. We have a fresh water tank inside under one of the beds and it doesn't freeze but the lines under the floor (insulated floor too) will freeze on the coldest (-15 F) nights.
For the external gray and black tanks we use RV antifreeze but the tanks still freeze and slush up just about every year and we can't drain them until they have had time to thaw for a few days once back home.
One thing we keep in the camper is a 110V hair dryer for focusing heat in an area to help thawing without being a fire hazard like a torch is. You can get 12V hairdryers...they aren't as hot as the 110V units but still safer than a torch.
I would use the 5/6 gallon jug idea in the winter...simpler idea and in the day you can set it out in the sun and free up some space on your counters. We carry the 6 gal. Reliance blue containers for extra water (WalMart) and they freeze solid all the way through every year...then keep them in the sun for the day or store them in the bathroom shower for a day or so till they thaw and have yet to have one split from the repeated freezings.
Darrell

 

[threepiece188]

I think one issue here is cunsumption. I think most of us use far more water than we need in our daily lives. I have been practicing low water use techniques for years now and I routienly use two to four oz. of water to brush my teeth or wash my hands. I apply this every time I turn on the faucet, It has changed the way I am designing my water system in my camper. Asside from drinking, 15 gallons would probably last me more than a few months, why would I put that size tank in my camper?

 

[kerry]

I too use containers in cold weather, except I use 2 1/2 gallon ones since they're easier to handle, even in my Bluebird Wanderlodge which has tank heaters.
Some people use rock salt in their waste tanks to stop them from freezing. I usually use RV antifreeze.

 

[dzzz]

I think one issue here is cunsumption. I think most of us use far more water than we need in our daily lives. I have been practicing low water use techniques for years now and I routienly use two to four oz. of water to brush my teeth or wash my hands. I apply this every time I turn on the faucet, It has changed the way I am designing my water system in my camper. Asside from drinking, 15 gallons would probably last me more than a few months, why would I put that size tank in my camper?

Last time I checked the amount of water in the world hasn''t changed. My lavish shower is your tooth brushing water.

As far as freezing, water for winter use needs to be inside the heated envelope. Electric tanks heaters are for shore power.
The first question is what is supplying winter heat? That energy has to be a liquid fuel as the only source that has sufficient energy density. That source must be what keeps you fresh water liquid.
The math doesn't work with electricity.
Keep it simple

 

[rusty_tlc]

I think one issue here is cunsumption. I think most of us use far more water than we need in our daily lives. I have been practicing low water use techniques for years now and I routienly use two to four oz. of water to brush my teeth or wash my hands. I apply this every time I turn on the faucet, It has changed the way I am designing my water system in my camper. Asside from drinking, 15 gallons would probably last me more than a few months, why would I put that size tank in my camper?

15* gallons is probably about right for two people for a week including drinking, cooking, and hygiene. Why would that be out of line for a camper?

*Actually a bit skimpy if you allow for what is normally recommended for daily water intake in desert situation.

 

[threepiece188]

Last time I checked the amount of water in the world hasn''t changed. My lavish shower is your tooth brushing water.

As far as freezing, water for winter use needs to be inside the heated envelope. Electric tanks heaters are for shore power.
The first question is what is supplying winter heat? That energy has to be a liquid fuel as the only source that has sufficient energy density. That source must be what keeps you fresh water liquid.
The math doesn't work with electricity.
Keep it simple

It's really not the water that's my issue it's the infrastructure that's required to process, store and deliver it. The idea of keeping our rigs simple is not new. For me and the amount of water I use, the water system in my camper will be greatly simplified.

 

[westyss]

What I am doing is using two sources for water, one in the camper envelope, and one between frame rails, my thinking is for winter camping use, the internal tank is used, in the winter, typically water consumption is less than summer. In the summer fill up the outer tanks and no freezing problems and greater capacity for showers etc.

 

[dzzz]

Who's equipped to fill their tank from surface water?