Etoimos
Observer
Thanks. I was getting as low as 8mpg with the Jeep towing a small offroad trailer, so just about anything should be an upgrade there. lol
Who is pulling an off road trailer with their Taco?
- Thread starter Etoimos
- Start date
Thanks. I was getting as low as 8mpg with the Jeep towing a small offroad trailer, so just about anything should be an upgrade there. lol
Clutch
<---Pass
Granted my Tacoma is an older 1st gen. Just got back from a quickie camp trip, don't have an offroad trailer but pull a trailer offroad
...averaged 14...trailer loaded 1200 lbs total, and maybe 600 lbs of payload in the truck. 75% of it was speeds at 35 mph, and the other 25% was 1st gear low range. Most the low range stuff was going across a pocked marked lava field with boulders...man that was miserable, will try and not do that again!
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Timcampsallover
Tree top flyer
I tow a So-Cal 510 with my 2012 Tacoma, 33s on both. 4.56 gears were the best mod to date, though it towed okay with stock gearing it's much happier now. I have the "tow package" but upgraded the tranny cooler to get the temps even lower. No idea on mileage, don't want to know! Any questions feel free to ask.
Keith, would you share some details about your transmission cooler upgrades? Make, model, price, and what you’re seeing with temperature differentials? I’m looking into doing this for my 2015 Acess Cab Off Road v6 4x4. How much of a difference did the Re gear make?
Keith Starr
Inmate #2558516
Hey Tim. Here are the parts I bought:
Derale 52506 25 Row Core Stacked Plate Cooler ($158)
Derale 98200 -6AN Female x 3/8" AN Swivel Hose Barb Fitting (2x @ $8.81/ea)
Derale 50020 Stacked Plate Cooler Mounting Bracket Kit ($23.92)
Derale 13016 Transmission/Engine Oil Hose ($16.77) <-- any 3/8" transmission hose is fine obviously, 5' is WAY too much but I'm lazy and Amazon sent it to my door lol, you only really need a couple feet
It's more expensive than others but it's about the best you can get (and fit) in the stock location with very minor modifications. I've seen an average decrease of 30* in temps. I have a Scangauge II reading TF1 and TF2 (pan and converter) and both settle around 140* (versus 170* with the stock cooler) at 70mph on a 90* day. They'll climb to 190* on very long, steep hills but come back down immediately. The real winner here is when I'm towing. The temps aren't much different. I've seen as low as 132* on a 90* day on flat ground going 70mph towing 2,000lbs in 4th gear, converter locked. I've seen a max of 200* when towing that load from Durango to Silverton on the steep 3rd gear climbs, but again, temps settle right back down to 140*ish when the road flattens out. You don't even want to know the temps in the Rockies with the stock cooler and stock gears.
You do have to relocate your horns to make room but that requires zero cutting of anything, the factory wires reach fine, just drill a couple holes in the center post and remount the horns. Best $200 I've ever spent.
Here is a comparison of stock versus the Derale:
This is a pic from scottfarm on TacomaWorld but mine is mounted the same way:
The 4.56 gears didn't directly affect trans temps (except that the converter stays locked 99% of the time now so the temps don't climb as often) but the truck is much happier towing now. It just freight-trains right up average hills, no more shifting at the slightest incline, and the converter only unlocks when you'd expect it to (e.g., starting a steep climb, then downshift, etc.). I suspect fuel mileage is about the same since cruising RPM is slightly higher but it rarely downshifts and gets into the 4000+rpm range like with stock gears. Regearing was probably the best thing I've ever done to the truck, honestly.
Timcampsallover
Tree top flyer
Keith, that’s perhaps the best and fastest technical response I’ve ever gotten on a forum. Thank you very much for the comprehensive and actionable answer! I spent today welding up a rear rack for my camper....but tomorrow ....I’m ordering the parts to copy your set up.
Keith Starr
Inmate #2558516
Happy to help! I took a few pics this morning of the orientation and aluminum brackets I made. I used rubber grommets to minimize vibration. I would advise ditching the hose clamps that come in the Derale kit in favor of re-using the stock Toyota constant tension clamps on the 3/8" trans line, no leaks that way. You can prefill the cooler with fluid and you will still have about the right amount in the system, I think I put 1/4 - 1/2 quart in it. NOTE: The top line is the hot inlet, the bottom is the cold outlet (return to trans). Have fun! It's money well spent. Good luck with your rack, I love welding and campers...Keith, that’s perhaps the best and fastest technical response I’ve ever gotten on a forum. Thank you very much for the comprehensive and actionable answer! I spent today welding up a rear rack for my camper....but tomorrow ....I’m ordering the parts to copy your set up.
Timcampsallover
Tree top flyer
Timcampsallover
Tree top flyer
I was test fitting a fabricated bracket and mounting system. I made some changes to the final and will post pics when it’s completed. Got my Re-gear completed too. Man there’s a serious break in period for the Yukon/Grizzly gears! I’m not sure about the road speed vs rpm at 70-75 mph....but I think it’s going to be great for towing in the hills and mountains.
Update on gas mileage for my fj cruiser w/rtt towing my offroad teardrop. Just got back from a trip to CO/UT. Got about the same mileage I quoted before 14-15 mpg. Except in Kansas and eastern CO. I think the combination of crosswind, slight incline, and higher speed limit just killed the milage. Knocked it down to 10-11 mpg. Once in off the freeway in the mountains it went back up. My takeway on the return was to just slow down. But that did make Kansas last longer! Otherwise the toyo did great not a hickup.
Over The Silent Planet
Active member
I just checked, and the 2015 access cab 4x4 payload is 1360 lbs. Seems everyone is really worried about going over GVWR. How are you getting away with carrying several hundred pounds more?
Timcampsallover
Tree top flyer
Combination of upgrades in theory increases useful load? Icon Stage 7 suspension w/rear shock upgrades and a 2.75-3” lift, All Pro Expedition springs, u bolt flip, better bump stops, 11.5x 33” Nitto’s with 3750# max load tires, At The Helm bed stiffeners, re-gear to 4.56 Yukon’s front and rear, stainless brake lines, etc.
I think most folks mean GCWR and use GVWR interchangeably even though they mean different things. GCWR is total mass inclusive of the trailer and GVWR is the same as GVM and is the max “in operation” weight specified by the manufacturer. You’re correct in that the GVWR for the 2015 4x4 v6 Acess Cab is 1360#. My towing max is 6500# too. The GCWR IS 11,100#.
So if my curb weight is 4,140# and my GCWR IS 11,100# then I’ve got 6,960# to use. My trailer loaded is 3,500# and my load out on the truck is about 1900-2100# totaling 5,600# on the high side.....1,360# below the GCWR.
I don’t know what factor or combination of factors limited the payload # from Toyota but it could have been the factory tires alone, or the springs, or the shocks even, or a combination of all three. I’ve changed each of these items in some cases substantially.....so.....should their factory numbers really apply to my truck?
I’m not sure how much capacity I’ve added or increased through the mods I’ve made but I’m sure the things I’ve mentioned do in fact increase the payload capacity. I also try to carry the weight well and appropriately distributed and low.
For me, it’s all about the drivability, safety, control and comfort. My truck rides much better than it did new from the factory and handles fantastically in all road conditions so far ....loaded or not. I think it’s possible that my mods would increase my payload capacity by as much as 3000#.
So the short answer is I think, paying (waaaay to much) for some major upgrades which not only increase the capabilities of the truck but which also increase comfort, safety and definitely....drivability.
I think most folks mean GCWR and use GVWR interchangeably even though they mean different things. GCWR is total mass inclusive of the trailer and GVWR is the same as GVM and is the max “in operation” weight specified by the manufacturer. You’re correct in that the GVWR for the 2015 4x4 v6 Acess Cab is 1360#. My towing max is 6500# too. The GCWR IS 11,100#.
So if my curb weight is 4,140# and my GCWR IS 11,100# then I’ve got 6,960# to use. My trailer loaded is 3,500# and my load out on the truck is about 1900-2100# totaling 5,600# on the high side.....1,360# below the GCWR.
I don’t know what factor or combination of factors limited the payload # from Toyota but it could have been the factory tires alone, or the springs, or the shocks even, or a combination of all three. I’ve changed each of these items in some cases substantially.....so.....should their factory numbers really apply to my truck?
I’m not sure how much capacity I’ve added or increased through the mods I’ve made but I’m sure the things I’ve mentioned do in fact increase the payload capacity. I also try to carry the weight well and appropriately distributed and low.
For me, it’s all about the drivability, safety, control and comfort. My truck rides much better than it did new from the factory and handles fantastically in all road conditions so far ....loaded or not. I think it’s possible that my mods would increase my payload capacity by as much as 3000#.
So the short answer is I think, paying (waaaay to much) for some major upgrades which not only increase the capabilities of the truck but which also increase comfort, safety and definitely....drivability.
Over The Silent Planet
Active member
The suspension plays a significant part in determining GVWR for sure. But so do the axles and to a lesser extent, the frame, right? The tires are always rated to handle well more than the GVWR (usually 2500+ lbs per corner), so I never thought they were the limiting factor. Interestingly enough, switching from P-metric to LT tires reduces your load capacity at the same air pressure. You have to air them up 10-15 psi higher than you had the P-metric to match the P-metric load capacity. Source.
Are you sure that having mass to spare in the GCVR means that you can move that mass from the trailer to the truck, exceeding your GVWR without consequences over the long term? That seems to be the gamble you're taking. Obviously, I don't know your truck, and you say it drives and handles well under all that load. That would just make me very nervous!
Timcampsallover
Tree top flyer
Yes, a combo of factors for sure. Axle upgrades are on my to do list still but I’ve been thinking they play a bigger role in towing capacity and not as directly in GVWR. I’ll have to check on the difference between the stock tires and mine but I was thinking there was a more significant gain from this improvement. As for the passenger tire load vs LT.... don’t fall for the tire shop price war pitches. P tires are not built the same as an LT, part of the reason a higher internal pressure is required in my opinion. In other words, if load capacity at a lower psi were the only factor used to determine a tires suitability for on and off road use then we’d all be using passenger car tires and mine would be z rated to boot. Lol. I love my LT Nitto Terra Grapplers! They are a great E rated/ 10 ply tire with aggressive tread and a quiet road profile. They are also P rated for speed so ok into the low 90’s if I’m remembering correctly? While the load vs pressure curve is not linear, even with the curves I’m fine with the trade off of running a higher pressure LT, heavier duty, aggressive tread pattern 10 ply tire and can be ok not airing down to 15 or 20 psi.
“ Are you sure that having mass to spare in the GCVR means that you can move that mass from the trailer to the truck, exceeding your GVWR without consequences over the long term?“
No, I’m pretty sure the GCVR and the GVWR are what they are and mean what they mean. A weight distributing hitch system can transfer some load around but I’m not typically using one. But, if I’m “scaled” towing my trailer, then I’m under the manufacturers published GCVR.
I monitor my frame and connections and fasteners for signs of stress and wear and I’m not nervous. The truck stops better, launches better, rides better, steers better, and carries the weight better than it did before the upgrades. So far, no regrets at all.